Guitar players

[Sample00]

Question for you all...
I have been playing guitar for a number of years now, but have only played rhythm.
I have gotten together with a bunch of guys and we are in the jamming stages at this point.
I want to expand my horizons a bit and get into playing some lead, but I cant seem to get my head around the concept.
I understand the pentatonic scales and boxes but I cant seem to get outside the "box" with playing lead. There is also so much feel and stuff to playing lead, even more so than rhythm.
so the question I have is, whats the deal? what makes playing lead so difficult and what do you players out there, that play lead, or better yet, how do you do it??
thoughts and advice are greatly appreciated.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Just turn the amp to 11.

[Igottago]

I'm at the same stage as you..i've been playing rythm for years and am starting to branch out and try more lead. I am starting by learning some more scales, and also trying to learn some solos and lead parts in songs that I like. It seems to be a good way to see how leads are developed and to get your fingers used to travelling the neck more. I am by no means where I want to be, but I find myself able to write much better lead parts in my own songs now, and hopefully I'll just keep getting better.

[JimmytheT]

Though I am still at the beginning of learning guitar, I can comment on playing lead based on my harmonica playing:

Just practice playing a few different chords or single notes in various order, until you find phrasings that sound good. Mix it with real music and improvize lots, and some of your own licks will come.

[Slava]

I think that it all boils down to practice and trial/error. Its a different mind set, no question, but its partially being confident playing that part.

[Hack&Lube]

I learned guitar by myself 3 years ago by just noodling around and using the internet for tabs. Basically, the only reason I wanted to start playing guitar was I liked guitar solos.

Consequentely, I'm good at guitar solos and lead...but absolutely crap at chords and rhythm! Everybody says that I'm very strange that way. I can't remember any chords, my fingers can't reach to hit certain chords, and I can't make chord changes fast enough for any decent song...but I can do pentatonic on the fly and do chromatic scales pretty quickly. I have no musical background but the way I learned was I got tabs of the guitar solos I liked and just played them and messed around until one day, I noticed they shared many of the same notes and lo and behold, I had discovered a scale by accident. Then I just remembered the notes to those guitar solos and I found I could improvise by just remembering those notes.

Then I loaded a backing track and drums that were in a certain scale and let it go and I'd just play randomly and improvise on the fly. Sometimes I'd just play something in a certain scale and loop it, and then I'd have my own backing track and then play over top of it. One really good way is to find a slow/jamming song that you really like. Something emotional like Purple Rain. It's a good song to just play any kind of lead randomly on and it will fit because the tempo is always steady. That's all I would do for hours. I'd always have a guitar in my hand the entire night nomatter where I was or what I was doing. If I'm watching TV, I'll have a guitar...and I'd just be picking individual notes (I get bored with chords - maybe it's because I don't know any) and trying to match the scale of whatever I was playing to anything that comes on TV, etc.

Want to know the most embarrassing thing? The guitar solos which were the first music I ever taught myself on guitar (EVEN BEFORE THE C CHORD!!!) were the solos in:

Olivia Newton John - Let's Get Physical (This taught me more scales than anything since it moves from one end of the guitar all the way down to the other and back again).
Whitesnake - Love Ain't No Stranger
Journey - Who's Crying Now
Poison - Ride the Wind
Law and Order Theme - (Yes it DOES have a guitar solo in the full version of the song which is like 5 minutes long and never broadcast on TV anymore)

I probably am in the exact reverse situation as you. I need to find a real guitar teacher to teach me how to actually play guitar as in chords and rhythm. So basically my advice is that I think the box is that you are trying to be too technical and remembering everything...you just have to play until you feel the notes in muscle memory and you can hear them so you know where to put your fingers next to get that right note that goes with what you are playing. Best advice is to put on a slow backing track in a certain key, and then just play notes until you find out the notes that fit that key and then keep playing them and noodling and improvising. Nothing more rewarding and enducational to me, as a (totally crappy) guitar player, than to slow jam some searing notes with distortion to a cheesy mellow backing track like you were making the soundtrack to an 80s Chuck Norris movie.

Here's a el-cheapo backing track I made awhile back that I find works quite well to play along to. It's the same short sequence (you might need to edit it in some software to get it to loop longer) so you have to really put out some good long sustaining notes or fast picking to stave off boredom...but if you get it, it can sound amazing.

http://ng.jeremy.googlepages.com/jeremybacking.mp3

It sounds well with these scales:


Basically I have that memorized and I find it works with lots of songs and if the song is in a key that is higher or lower, I can just transpose it up or down a few frets but the pattern remains.

[Engine09]

I know maybe two scales, just learned them by accident. Theory is boring, I just learned when I was a kid by listening and trying to emulate what I heard.

Honestly, just get some tab and learn what some of your favorite guys do. You'll catch on and start to figure out their tricks. I've sat down and learned some Cantrell, Vai, Slash, Joe Walsh, Mustaine, etc, lots of fun and not thaaaat hard with tab.

[Sample00]

some good info there, folks and I thank you.
comments that are being made, are like improvising, doing a scale and coming back on it in a loop.
well that stuff is just greek to me.
the tab idea is a good one and I have tried that.
for example, I am currently tryin to learn Rush's The Limelight.
maybe a bit of a stretch and a little too much to learn off the top, but its a song that I have always really digged and wanted to really learn it. but sheesh, I feel like its a friggin labour trying to just get a feel for playing it and understanding the neck and where to go.
I like the Purple Rain idea though. I may have to try that tomorrow.

[Hanna Sniper]

The best way I think I can say it is that you have to look at it as telling a story, but to do so first you have to learn to speak…

Pick up little phrases and licks from other players that you really like and fits the style of music you play… for every lick or phrase that you steal/learn then it’s like learning a new word to add to your vocabulary. At first it’s hard to “hold a conversation” with your solo if you only know a couple “words” but just keep practicing them and learning to apply them to every key. Get to really know the ones you do so you’re solid and confident with them. As time passes and you add more “words” one by one you’ll find that you have a lot more to say.

At first every thing is pretty much going to be repetitive, but remember when you 1st started learning to play guitar it was repetitive playing the same bloddy song over and over and over agai. This is no different but the best thing is that you have a lot more skill now then when you first started learning.

Added to this, just to get things started for yourself, it might be a good idea to steal/learn a solo note for note that you like. This way you get a good feel of how everything flows together. Also you’ll be able to steal a couple licks from within the solo (have to start somewhere). Once you have that solo down and feeling comfortable about it, and you’re learning new phrases and licks, you can adapt them and start fitting them into this solo. This 12 bar solo will eventfully be clocking over 8 minutes.

Hopefully this is what you’re asking

[Sample00]

thanks Hanna, thats a great analogy.
at this point I feel like I am speaking german and the stuff is written in greek.
its all so frustrating.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Gotta have the tremolo. Love the tremolo. Embrace it.

[Hanna Sniper]

Here's something to poke around with... not sure how well it will fit you (as I'm a Clapton fan) but it might be some to get yourself started

http://12bar.de/sololick.php

[Hack&Lube]

Like I suggested before, here's a Purple Rain backing track. Just play along with it randomly and try to figure out what notes "fit". There's some piano and synth in the background so you can get an idea of what notes sound right with it. That's basically all there is to playing lead. Try to figure out what notes sound good together and then combine them and be creative...then you've got a lick. When you get good at that, you can start improvising on the fly but you need to build up muscle memory to instinctively know what notes can come next. Just hum something along to it that sounds good to you (not the original melody). Then try to replicate that on the guitar.

http://ng.jeremy.googlepages.com/Pri...ainbacking.mp3

Don't bother reading theory and all that stuff, just feel the music and it's much more natural. Theory is more for those people who are well advanced and want to expand their knowledge and improve their already great playing.
Another thing that's easy to do...figure out chromatic scales for yourself. Basically just figure out how to play do-re-mi-fa-so-la-ti-do all the way up and down the neck in various positions (I find quadrants of four frets to be nice, you can just keep your hand centered on an area that is four frets wide and then only use those frets in that area from the low e to the high e) as fast as you can.

[Sample00]

thanks H&L,
I will give that a try. I have all those songs you mentioned so I will get them onto the ole Ipod and give them a go
see where it takes me. the muscle memory theory is not the first time I have heard that. I had to develop the same thing for playig chords.
I guess maybe I am just trying to be too technical and not feel the music, but damn it gets frustrating when one constantly hits the wrong notes.

[MonsieurFish]

yea i'm just starting to learn lead now. i've gotten pretty decent at it imo... but i think it mainly comes with practice/experience and you'll get a feel and an ear for what the next note should be and where it is on the fretboard. mainly....

major scales frets are....

E 0
B 2 4 5
G 1 2 4
D 1 2 4
A 0 2 4
E 0 2 4

and minor are...


E 0
B 1 4 5
G 0 2 4
D 1 2 4
A 0 2 3
E 0 2 3

and then suppose you play on the 2nd fret instead of 0... just add 2 to all those numbers.
you'll eventually get a feel for whether the solo is in minor or major. i mainly just try playing along to stuff and see how accurately i can play along figuring it out as i go.

[Sample00]

just looking at that scale you posted, H&L
see now, thats what I mean, its friggin greek to me.
I cant see the pattern, and thats what I find so frustrating.

[Hack&Lube]

Here's the solo you wanted. I've never tried it myself but it looks very very simple. Shouldn't be too hard, you just have to get used to the high end of the neck.



Play along to the song. The lead solo is probably easier than the playing the more complicated bass and rhythm part that goes with it.

[I_H8_Crawford]

.... I can play Guitar Hero on Hard/Expert.......

[Sample00]

hehe, ya looks totally easy

I think I am gonna need to sit down with someone that can help me understand the pattern.

microchip into the head, ya thats it, that would work!

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Sample00

hehe, ya looks totally easy

I think I am gonna need to sit down with someone that can help me understand the pattern.

microchip into the head, ya thats it, that would work!

Oh yeah, that's what I need too. I have no friends that play guitar so it totally sucks since I have nobody to play with to learn things with. We need a Calgarypuck Guitar support group.

As for the tab, it's all straightforward except for the whammy bar bombs (all the notes in the beginning) and then lots of bending. Are you any good at whammy bar or bending? Bending is probably one of the most important skills for playing lead. And trust me, if I can learn lead by myself off the internet in like 2 years, you, who have played guitar for probably much longer and are good at the principle areas like chords and rhythm can probably learn much faster and play better.