High-Profile Sexual Abuse Epidemic

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

he did have a tragic past, but you're using his past to make excuses for what he did.
dunno what else to say but his past isn't an excuse for his actions as much as you're saying it is.

I’m not saying it excuses his actions at all - only that of all the monstrous people who are the topic of this thread, I don’t view Polanski quite the same because none of them survived the Holocaust only to have the Manson family kill their wife and unborn child - I don’t think it’s possible to have that life experience and not be a shattered husk of a human being.

I feel bad for him. I feel bad for the girl. I feel bad for everyone touched by that situation.

I don’t feel bad for Mel Gibson or James Woods or Roseanne Barr, or Bill Cosby.

Call me a monster if you must.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

They aren't excuses and don't absolve him in any way, but sometimes it's interesting to understand the psychological trauma that can lead people to extreme acts.

I can agree that it can be interesting to learn how psychological trauma shapes your character and behavior.

but.. just in this thread GreenLantern2814 seems to be giving him a pass on the rape because of his past, so some people do believe to an extent that trauma absolves and excuses you from the full consequences of your actions.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Matata

You know the odds of someone having 3 different accusers die before trial for the same person are astronomically small? So small that hitting someone with a car to kill them actually becomes the vastly more probable event. Spacey was also connected to the Maxwell family, who is deeply connected to multiple intelligence agencies, all of which are packed to the brim with skilled assassins. Could these intelligence agencies kill anyone they want, any time they want? Ask Epstein.

I know the clinton kill list has convinced people that it's perfectly normal for multiple people to die before they can take the stand against the same individual, but statistically speaking, these are essentially impossible events.

I'm looking forward to the Hitman DLC where Agent 47 has to actually give someone cancer... you complete f-cking nutter.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

I can agree that it can be interesting to learn how psychological trauma shapes your character and behavior.

but.. just in this thread GreenLantern2814 seems to be giving him a pass on the rape because of his past, so some people do believe to an extent that trauma absolves and excuses you from the full consequences of your actions.

Not so much “giving him a pass for rape” as “not feeling compelled to have him direct my feature film starring naught but the most talented of Hollywood’s cancelled and disgraced.”

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

I'm looking forward to the Hitman DLC where Agent 47 has to actually give someone cancer... you complete f-cking nutter.

That's actually much easier. Just give them an all-you-can-eat gift card to Taco Bell for a year.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I’m not saying it excuses his actions at all - only that of all the monstrous people who are the topic of this thread, I don’t view Polanski quite the same because none of them survived the Holocaust only to have the Manson family kill their wife and unborn child - I don’t think it’s possible to have that life experience and not be a shattered husk of a human being.

I feel bad for him. I feel bad for the girl. I feel bad for everyone touched by that situation.

I don’t feel bad for Mel Gibson or James Woods or Roseanne Barr, or Bill Cosby.

Call me a monster if you must.

not calling you a monster. just disagreeing with you that he deserves empathy for his rape because of his past. If he was that shattered of a husk of a human being you'd have think we'd know about other ways he acted out his trauma and have difficulty functioning.

I think he is an opportunistic predator, like many others in that time period. Worse though, as he didn't have consent.

but yeah. I'm not going to go on about it for 3 days. Although it is hard to believe how ok it seems to have been back in the 60's and especially the 70's to have sex with kids. Probably not a lot of rock stars I could still listen to if what they were up to came out.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

They aren't excuses and don't absolve him in any way, but sometimes it's interesting to understand the psychological trauma that can lead people to extreme acts.

Naw. I just think he was a person who suffered trauma who also happened to be a predator. He was in his 40s when he raped that girl, and there's no evidence that he was suffering from any kind of psychiatric condition that would have altered his ability to know right from wrong.

The psychology behind it was that he was a horny middle aged man. Quaaludes and champaign were probably a pretty common party drug combo for him. He had a horrible lapse in judgment and took advantage of 13 year old. Having a few drinks and sleeping with models was probably a common thing for him to do. He just shouldn't have done it with a 13 year or someone who wasn't consenting.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by blankall

Naw. I just think he was a person who suffered trauma who also happened to be a predator. He was in his 40s when he raped that girl, and there's no evidence that he was suffering from any kind of psychiatric condition that would have altered his ability to know right from wrong.

The psychology behind it was that he was a horny middle aged man. Quaaludes and champaign were probably a pretty common party drug combo for him. He had a horrible lapse in judgment and took advantage of 13 year old. Having a few drinks and sleeping with models was probably a common thing for him to do. He just shouldn't have done it with a 13 year or someone who wasn't consenting.

Sure, that's a fair enoguh conclusion, too. I was more speaking in general. I don't actually know a lot about the Polanski stuff. So maybe my thought doesn't apply to his situation.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

not calling you a monster. just disagreeing with you that he deserves empathy for his rape because of his past. If he was that shattered of a husk of a human being you'd have think we'd know about other ways he acted out his trauma and have difficulty functioning.

I think he is an opportunistic predator, like many others in that time period. Worse though, as he didn't have consent.

And I’m not telling you not to think that - there’s a reason the only Polanski film I’ve seen is the Pianist, and I’ve only seen it once.

It’s uncomfortable to engage with his work, because it’s impossible to separate the art from the artist.

Polanski’s life has been ruined ten thousand times over.

That poor girl’s life was ruined.

I hope he didn’t ruin anyone else’s life, though odds are against that.

The entire situation is too sad. Like I said, I feel bad for everyone involved, in a way I don’t for the other people in my definitely-happening movie.

Which is why it’s being directed by Mel Sugartits Gibson.

[Swift]

On the Polanski discussion, the woman in the case gave an interview recently to Polanski's wife - https://www.yahoo.com/news/roman-pol...231258638.html

"Let me be very clear: What happened with Polanski was never a big problem for me,” Geimer told Seigner in a translated version of the interview obtained Monday by The Times. “I didn’t even know it was illegal, that someone could be arrested for it. I was fine, I’m still fine. The fact that we’ve made this [a big deal] weighs on me terribly. To have to constantly repeat that it wasn’t a big deal, it’s a terrible burden.”

Geimer told Seigner that she "was not a child at 13" and said what happened between her and Polanski wasn't that shocking because many people were having an illicit relationships with minors at the time.

"At the time, a whole bunch of teenage girls would have dreamed of ending up in Jack Nicholson's house to have sex with the first guy they could get their hands on," Geimer said.

[...]

She told Seigner that the 2009 extradition attempt was "so unfair and so in opposition to justice."

"Everyone should know by now that Roman has served his sentence. Which was … long, if you want my opinion," she said in the translated article, adding that the filmmaker had "paid his debt to society" already.

[...]

The mother of three grown sons also opened up about the case in her 2013 memoir, “The Girl: A Life in the Shadow of Roman Polanski.” She recounted her version of the alleged events in the book and said she feels more wounded by what she calls the “victim industry”: the lawyers, judge and journalists whom she feels sensationalized her case for their own interests.

“You shouldn’t be able to make what happened to me worse so it’s more interesting,” Geimer told The Times then. “You’re put upon to feel bad and be a victim so other people can use you as they see fit.”

She reiterated that view with Seigner.

"I persevere, but the fact is people don't want to hear the truth when it doesn't fit their purpose," she said.

Geimer said that she was not very optimistic about the media's perspective changing.

"I've been trying to get people to listen to me for a long time. And it looks like things are only getting worse," she said, to which Seigner replied, "We have to change things, it has to be. We are two now. we are stronger."

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Locke

Directed by Roman Polanski.

Produced by Harvey Weinstein.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Produced by Harvey Weinstein.

I mean...there isnt much point in pulling any punches....

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Swift

On the Polanski discussion, the woman in the case gave an interview recently to Polanski's wife - https://www.yahoo.com/news/roman-pol...231258638.html

This is definitely strange. There were a lot of reports that she kept saying no to him. From wiki:

In a 2003 interview, she recalled that she began to feel uncomfortable after he asked her to lie down on a bed, and described how she attempted to resist. "I said, 'No, no. I don't want to go in there. No, I don't want to do this. No!', and then I didn't know what else to do", she stated, adding: "We were alone and I didn't know what else would happen if I made a scene. So I was just scared, and after giving some resistance, I figured well, I guess I'll get to come home after this".[19]

Geimer testified that Polanski provided champagne that they shared as well as part of a Quaalude,[20] and despite her protests, he performed oral sex upon her, had vaginal intercourse, and sodomized her,[21][22] each time after being told "no" and being asked to stop.[14][23][24][25]

Although Geimer has insisted that the sex was non-consensual, Polanski has disputed this.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by blankall

This is definitely strange. There were a lot of reports that she kept saying no to him. From wiki:

as I recall she later said her testimony was coached, that she felt obligated to go along with the prosecutors hints

[Locke]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

as I recall she later said her testimony was coached, that she felt obligated to go along with the prosecutors hints

For why?

[CliffFletcher]

… and said what happened between her and Polanski wasn't that shocking because many people were having an illicit relationships with minors at the time.

It certainly wasn’t unusual in the film and music industries. The early 70s was the peak/nadir of the jail-bait trend, where celebrities sought out ever-younger girls. Groupie Pamela des Barres recounted in her book that once rock stars got bored with screwing run-of-the-mill 16 and 17 year old groupies, it became de rigueur to go after the really young ones. Lori Mattox, who was 14 when Bowie and Jimmy Page had ‘relationships’ with her, being the most famous.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Locke

For why?

I watched a documentary on it years ago, basically it came down to her realising what Polanski did was wrong, she never said he didn't do it or it was ok but then the lawyers pushing her to emphasise her saying 'no' and how terrible it was and she said in retrospect she felt pushed into the testimony

[OptimalTates]

I don't know much about Lizzo, but the MeToo celebrities coming forward to defend her seem extremely hypocritical.

As a way to stop women from being called liars, Selma Blair thought it was important to get out her MeToo story about how she had to pinch a director's nipples while he jerked off to get a job. Yet she defends Lizzo when her dancers are saying they needed to eat a banana from a vag to keep their job.

[bluejays]

[blankall]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I watched a documentary on it years ago, basically it came down to her realising what Polanski did was wrong, she never said he didn't do it or it was ok but then the lawyers pushing her to emphasise her saying 'no' and how terrible it was and she said in retrospect she felt pushed into the testimony

Is it that she didn't say no, or that she just wants to move on:

olanski, 75, has lived in exile in France since fleeing the United States in 1978 after pleading guilty to unlawful sexual intercourse. Polanski admitted to having sex with a 13-year-old girl, and an arrest warrant against him remains in effect.

In her declaration, Samantha Geimer said, "I am no longer a 13-year-old child. I have dealt with the difficulties of being a victim, have surmounted and surpassed them with one exception.

"Every time this case is brought to the attention of the Court, great focus is made of me, my family, my mother and others. That attention is not pleasant to experience and is not worth maintaining over some irrelevant legal nicety, the continuation of the case."

Geimer, who has spoken publicly about the case before, including a 2003 appearance on CNN's "Larry King Live," added, "I have survived, indeed prevailed, against whatever harm Mr. Polanski may have caused me as a child."

She chided the district attorney's office for not dismissing the case earlier and for "yet once again (giving) great publicity to the lurid details of those events, for all to read again. True as they may be, the continued publication of those details cause harm to me ... I have become a victim of the actions of the District Attorney

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/01/12/...ase/index.html

She still describes herself as a "victim", but is obviously tired about reliving the event in the media.

She also seems to be specifically denying it was consensual:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...onsensual.html