Pentagon releases UFO videos

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

You would think with all these people willing to be whistleblowers, that there would be some that would spill the beans for a big enough bribe. If I was a billionaire lunatic like Elon Musk who seems to have an interest in space travel, I'd be offering substantial rewards for anyone who could provide hard evidence or pieces of alien technology.

Whistleblowers don't blow the whistle for money. Money is not a motivator. They blow the whistle because they believe they have a responsibility to right a wrong. Want to get a whistleblower to spill the beans? Show them that public disclosure will right the wrong. Problem being, the Whistleblower needs to feel confident they are not putting themselves or the integrity of their job/function/life at risk. Whistleblowers have very specific rules they have to follow so they don't put themselves in limbo, especially when classified information is concerned.

It's exactly why Grush would only speak to specifics in a SCIF and why he almost begged for members to question him in a SCIF. This is a guy who wants to spill the beans but doesn't want to end up in prison or dead.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

The problem with population level polling like that is it isn't all that interesting or informative. Like, 1 in 4 Americans believe in astrology. 81% believe in god. 13% believe bigfoot is real. 41% believe in ghosts(and 43% demons, somehow). It just doesn't seem very informative.


Which is why I wanted to see a ranking of users here to get a general idea of where the possibilities lie for what people rank as possible explanations.

They're the same. They're both sampling of populations of people. You're just entering in more/different variables and then relying on multivariate statistical analysis to make generalizations.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Whistleblowers don't blow the whistle for money. Money is not a motivator. They blow the whistle because they believe they have a responsibility to right a wrong. Want to get a whistleblower to spill the beans? Show them that public disclosure will right the wrong. Problem being, the Whistleblower needs to feel confident they are not putting themselves or the integrity of their job/function/life at risk. Whistleblowers have very specific rules they have to follow so they don't put themselves in limbo, especially when classified information is concerned.

It's exactly why Grush would only speak to specifics in a SCIF and why he almost begged for members to question him in a SCIF. This is a guy who wants to spill the beans but doesn't want to end up in prison or dead.

I think that is probably true for the ones that have come forward so far, but there must be some in these programs that would be tempted. Everyone has a price, for the million dollar man.

Kind of curious what supporters of alien UAP origin theory think about Bob Lazar and Tom DeLonge. Are these guys actually considered trust worthy sources of information? I have huge BS alarms going off with Lazar for sure. I always thought Tom DeLonge was full of it too, but when it was proven that he did in fact meet with people who had high clearance, it makes me wonder if some of the other stuff he says is true.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think that is probably true for the ones that have come forward so far, but there must be some in these programs that would be tempted. Everyone has a price, for the million dollar man.

Kind of curious what supporters of alien UAP origin theory think about Bob Lazar and Tom DeLonge. Are these guys actually considered trust worthy sources of information? I have huge BS alarms going off with Lazar for sure. I always thought Tom DeLonge was full of it too, but when it was proven that he did in fact meet with people who had high clearance, it makes me wonder if some of the other stuff he says is true.

Tom has always been a huge believer long before he met with anybody government connected. He's also a Bigfoot believer and literally goes on Bigfoot spotting excursions in the woods when he tours through Washington and Vancouver.

So sure, he could be right and could have some kind of verbal confirmation from people he's spoken to, but he also reeks of confirmation bias, and would probably be one of the first to jump to conclusions without any verifiable proof.

Lazar I've heard differing opinions on. I don't know what to believe because opinions on him are so polarized. Either people appear to want badly to discredit him or to believe him. From what I've seen of him I think he believes in the story he tells, and the way he tells it passes my lie detector as far as visual cues and the consistency in his account, but who knows.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Tom has always been a huge believer long before he met with anybody government connected. He's also a Bigfoot believer and literally goes on Bigfoot spotting excursions in the woods when he tours through Washington and Vancouver.

So sure, he could be right and could have some kind of verbal confirmation from people he's spoken to, but he also reeks of confirmation bias, and would probably be one of the first to jump to conclusions without any verifiable proof.

Lazar I've heard differing opinions on. I don't know what to believe because opinions on him are so polarized. Either people appear to want badly to discredit him or to believe him. From what I've seen of him I think he believes in the story he tells, and the way he tells it passes my lie detector as far as visual cues and the consistency in his account, but who knows.

I think the right type of person can tell a lie long enough they believe it, which makes it easier to pass it off as the truth. He's been telling the stories for a long time.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I think the right type of person can tell a lie long enough they believe it, which makes it easier to pass it off as the truth. He's been telling the stories for a long time.

I mean the guy could be a complete narcissist who convinced himself of this story because it makes him interesting and important to a segment of the population. He could've committed to that story 40 years ago and just never looked back or questioned it.

People have certainly been known to do that.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Tom has always been a huge believer long before he met with anybody government connected. He's also a Bigfoot believer and literally goes on Bigfoot spotting excursions in the woods when he tours through Washington and Vancouver.

So sure, he could be right and could have some kind of verbal confirmation from people he's spoken to, but he also reeks of confirmation bias, and would probably be one of the first to jump to conclusions without any verifiable proof.

Lazar I've heard differing opinions on. I don't know what to believe because opinions on him are so polarized. Either people appear to want badly to discredit him or to believe him. From what I've seen of him I think he believes in the story he tells, and the way he tells it passes my lie detector as far as visual cues and the consistency in his account, but who knows.

With Bob Lazar, he said that he has a sample of the stable form of element 115, but he seems to still be alive and able to freely talk about everything. If he really wanted to blow the lid off everything, he could unveil a piece of it.

The Tom DeLonge thing is funny, because I assumed he was just a fan of alien mythology and that he was doing a lot of this to promote his wife's production company. When he claimed that he met high level people, I had trouble believing that because I thought why would a high level person risk their career talking to a rock star with no real influence. But then when the leaks came out and it was verified, it kind of gave him some credibility. He also said that he acquired alien artifacts through these contacts, which sounds completely outrageous, but then again, so did the other thing. But again, if he wanted to blow the lid off everything, he could just by producing them. If he thought he was in any real danger, then even advertising it would be dumb. Of course, it is likely that he is using the clout to build up his importance.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

With Bob Lazar, he said that he has a sample of the stable form of element 115, but he seems to still be alive and able to freely talk about everything. If he really wanted to blow the lid off everything, he could unveil a piece of it.

The Tom DeLonge thing is funny, because I assumed he was just a fan of alien mythology and that he was doing a lot of this to promote his wife's production company. When he claimed that he met high level people, I had trouble believing that because I thought why would a high level person risk their career talking to a rock star with no real influence. But then when the leaks came out and it was verified, it kind of gave him some credibility. He also said that he acquired alien artifacts through these contacts, which sounds completely outrageous, but then again, so did the other thing. But again, if he wanted to blow the lid off everything, he could just by producing them. If he thought he was in any real danger, then even advertising it would be dumb. Of course, it is likely that he is using the clout to build up his importance.

We need a big 'ol show and tell event broadcasted from an undisclosed location where every one who claims to have evidence (photos, artifacts, samples of rare stable elements) can bring forward their stuff and, as you say, blow the lid off this thing.

[GGG]

Anyone who claims to be in possession of alien materials but won’t let people analyze said materials can be dismissed as a liar.

Essentially they have the evidence to prove it’s true, the desire to prove it’s true, yet choose not to disclose. Once you do that you have lost credibility.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

With Bob Lazar, he said that he has a sample of the stable form of element 115, but he seems to still be alive and able to freely talk about everything. If he really wanted to blow the lid off everything, he could unveil a piece of it.

The Tom DeLonge thing is funny, because I assumed he was just a fan of alien mythology and that he was doing a lot of this to promote his wife's production company. When he claimed that he met high level people, I had trouble believing that because I thought why would a high level person risk their career talking to a rock star with no real influence. But then when the leaks came out and it was verified, it kind of gave him some credibility. He also said that he acquired alien artifacts through these contacts, which sounds completely outrageous, but then again, so did the other thing. But again, if he wanted to blow the lid off everything, he could just by producing them. If he thought he was in any real danger, then even advertising it would be dumb. Of course, it is likely that he is using the clout to build up his importance.

I didn't know that both of them claimed to be in possession of physical evidence. Makes them seem less credible. Yes, obviously why wouldn't they just produce the evidence.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GGG

Anyone who claims to be in possession of alien materials but won’t let people analyze said materials can be dismissed as a liar.

Essentially they have the evidence to prove it’s true, the desire to prove it’s true, yet choose not to disclose. Once you do that you have lost credibility.

Ya, the entire "community" should dismiss them outright until they present the proof they say they hav. Anyone believing them after that is a sucker.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by GGG

Essentially they have the evidence to prove it’s true, the desire to prove it’s true, yet choose not to disclose. Once you do that you have lost credibility.

I totally see what you're saying, but if you're in the know, choosing to disclose is also a damn good way to ensure you likely never get to share information ever again. Once you breach that threshold, you could be putting yourself in culpable / ethical / legal turbulent waters. David Grusch is currently tightrope-walking this scenario right now.

For example, I have info about future sports and rec projects in Canada that I cannot disclose. Doesn't mean I don't want to, doesn't mean I don't have them, just means I'd get my hand severely slapped and could potentially jeopardize my reputation and career in my industry doing so. Not worth it - at least until I'm given an official green light to discuss.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Muta

I totally see what you're saying, but if you're in the know, choosing to disclose is also a damn good way to ensure you likely never get to share information ever again. Once you breach that threshold, you could be putting yourself in culpable / ethical / legal turbulent waters. David Grusch is currently tightrope-walking this scenario right now.

For example, I have info about future sports and rec projects in Canada that I cannot disclose. Doesn't mean I don't want to, doesn't mean I don't have them, just means I'd get my hand severely slapped and could potentially jeopardize my reputation and career in my industry doing so. Not worth it - at least until I'm given an official green light to discuss.

Naw. If I had the smoking gun, I'd share it. This is such massive news, it would change the world forever. You would forever solidify your reputation and become the leading authority if you successfully proved the existence of aliens. Worried about your career? You'd instantly be an historical figure.

Lol. Comparing it to confidential information about rec projects.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

And they've already supposedly erased Lazar's employment records and it's not like Tom stole anything out of a facility himself.

What fears should be holding these guys back?

The only thing I can think of is maybe their evidence is underwhelming and alone can't prove anything so they figure "why bother if it gets me in trouble and doesn't prove the existence of aliens?"

I don't believe Tom has evidence and I'm on the fence about Lazar, but lean towards no.

Grusch has reason to protect himself so I can understand the secrecy, but if his claims are true then I don't know why he would be allowed to share that harm has come to people in this secret program.

Why is that not classified, but certain innocuous details are? Just seems silly.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GGG

Anyone who claims to be in possession of alien materials but won’t let people analyze said materials can be dismissed as a liar.

Essentially they have the evidence to prove it’s true, the desire to prove it’s true, yet choose not to disclose. Once you do that you have lost credibility.

Things are a lot more complicated than you suggest when it comes to government and classified government projects. An individual may have intimate details of where evidence was, how it was stored, specifics to incidents, witnesses, and so on, but cannot produce physical evidence to case because of compartmentalization and segregation of duties. A manager may have access to information of parts of a program, but have zero access to something you would accept as evidence. I'd still take the manager as a whistleblower and then use appropriate means to try and extract the physical evidence.

Originally Posted by Muta

I totally see what you're saying, but if you're in the know, choosing to disclose is also a damn good way to ensure you likely never get to share information ever again. Once you breach that threshold, you could be putting yourself in culpable / ethical / legal turbulent waters. David Grusch is currently tightrope-walking this scenario right now.

For example, I have info about future sports and rec projects in Canada that I cannot disclose. Doesn't mean I don't want to, doesn't mean I don't have them, just means I'd get my hand severely slapped and could potentially jeopardize my reputation and career in my industry doing so. Not worth it - at least until I'm given an official green light to discuss.

This makes sense and would be consistent with a lot of business that are big or with government interests. You may have all the insights on the projects but don't have access to contracts and drawings and such. Doesn't make you a liar.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by blankall

Naw. If I had the smoking gun, I'd share it.

Maybe ask Valentin Broeksmit about the dangers of being a whistleblower. Be careful where you hold that smoking gun. You can end up dead by crossing the wrong people.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...sing-rcna26382

A lot of whistleblowers end up dead by suicide.

http://eskify.com/10-whistleblowers-...-mysteriously/

https://abcnews.go.com/US/prison-whi...ry?id=69530523

[GGG]

That’s different than what Lazar is claiming or say the alien autopsy guy was. Lazar stated he had stolen element 115.

So to be clear my thought was anyone claiming to have possession of alien materials to support their assertions that aliens exist should be assumed they are a liar if they aren’t producing those materials for examination..

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Maybe ask Valentin Broeksmit about the dangers of being a whistleblower. Be careful where you hold that smoking gun. You can end up dead by crossing the wrong people.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...sing-rcna26382

A lot of whistleblowers end up dead by suicide.

http://eskify.com/10-whistleblowers-...-mysteriously/

https://abcnews.go.com/US/prison-whi...ry?id=69530523

Well ya, but that sounds like he was ####ing with billionaires. Don't #### with billionaires.

But really, if you have an alien artifact and you spend all this time talking about aliens, is their really any excess danger at that point? I just don't buy it, at all.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Muta

For example, I have info about future sports and rec projects in Canada that I cannot disclose..

Remember that time you kinda did though, and we all wished you didn't.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

Remember that time you kinda did though, and we all wished you didn't.

And like many whistleblowers the real story was very underwhelming relative to the non-specific leaked info.