You should read The Extratempestrial Model by Dr. Michael P. Masters. It may actually make you think time travelers are more likely.
Personally I think 'aliens' are just one option, and more likely we are looking at something that has been here for a long time and shares some DNA with us.
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The Gorman Dogfight, 1948
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About a half hour later, most of the pilots flying decided to call it a night, but Gorman wanted to get in more flying time. According to a story in The Fargo Forum dated Oct. 3, 1948, Gorman was flying near Hector Field, about two and a half miles from the football field, when an air traffic controller told him about a small Piper Cub in the area.
He acknowledged the smaller plane about 500 feet below, but a few minutes later, he spotted something else.
He said it was a "flying disk," was round with well-defined edges, brilliantly lit and circling slowly over the city. He asked the tower about the object, and they said they only saw Gorman’s plane and the Piper Cub. This object was not showing up on radar.
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Gorman decided to investigate, but as he got closer to the object, it suddenly got brighter and shot away from him. He estimated it was flying around 250 miles an hour, but accelerated to 600 miles an hour. Gorman’s plane could only fly about 400 miles an hour, so he lost the object. But it came back and flew right at him.
"When the object was coming head on, I held my plane pointed right at it," Gorman said. "The object came so close that I involuntarily ducked my head because I thought a crash was inevitable. But the object zoomed over my head."
The "dogfight" lasted 27 minutes — a lifetime for a UFO encounter. The declassified documents include a diagram Gorman drew of what went on in the air that night.
Gorman was said to be so shaken after the incident that he had trouble landing the plane. He told The Fargo Forum later, it was "the weirdest experience I've had in my life."
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After Gorman told his commanding officer what happened, the incident was referred to Air Force intelligence. Investigators arrived in Fargo on Oct. 4 and interviewed the two air traffic controllers in the tower that night as well as the pilot of the Piper Cub, a local physician. All of them corroborated Gorman’s account.
Gorman wrote in a sworn statement that he was convinced there was "definitive thought" behind the object's maneuvers and that the aircraft could go faster, turn tighter and climb steeper than his aircraft.
Despite what seems to be evidence to the contrary, the Air Force concluded the object was a combination of looking at the planet Jupiter and a weather balloon. According to Eriksmoen, Gorman insisted it wasn’t a weather balloon, but the Air Material Command warned him not to divulge any further information or he would be subject to a court martial.
That might be one reason why Gorman stayed pretty quiet throughout the rest of his military career, which took him to bases in Italy and throughout the U.S. He retired as a lieutenant colonel and died from pancreatic cancer in Texas in the early 1980s at the age of 59.
You should read The Extratempestrial Model by Dr. Michael P. Masters. It may actually make you think time travelers are more likely.
Personally I think 'aliens' are just one option, and more likely we are looking at something that has been here for a long time and shares some DNA with us.
I think time travellers are more likely than aliens. It solves the how to find us question.
I’m curious to where you would see some thing that has been here a long time hiding without leaving anything in the fossil record and without producing any kind of electromagnetic signals and fitting within the evolutionary timelines of the earth.
I think time travellers are more likely than aliens. It solves the how to find us question.
I’m curious to where you would see some thing that has been here a long time hiding without leaving anything in the fossil record and without producing any kind of electromagnetic signals and fitting within the evolutionary timelines of the earth.
I wish I could find it now but a few years ago I listened to a podcast where a doctor argued this, essentially he said the sheer impossible distances to travel here, the incredible amount of energy needed for this travel and questions on how did they find our little planet in the first place, but his best argument was that life on earth are a product of this planet so what are the chances that another living being from another planet have exactly the same makeup of gravity and air that we humans evolved from in order to survive?, if they came from a planet with 2X the size their body's would go to crap in hurry in our gravity and same goes for if their planet was .5 of our size, and what are the chances their planet has a 80% nitrogen and 20% percent oxygen makeup in order to breathe. He didn't really say he thought UFO's were from the future but he said it's more believable than interstellar aliens.
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How the U.S. Government Made Pilots Too Embarrassed to Admit They’d Seen UFOs
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The U.S. government deliberately cultivated stigma related to UFO sightings during the Cold War. An uptick in reports in 1947 spurred the creation of the first official UFO investigation, Project Sign. A few months later, after it became clear that the Air Force couldn’t handle the number of reports coming in, it hired a scientist, J. Allen Hynek, to evaluate the information. Hynek couldn’t explain roughly 20 percent of the cases he looked at, but the Air Force didn’t want to probe further.
“It was a different world then, and the government was worried that the Russians would take advantage of UFO reports,” Kean told me in a phone interview. A foreign enemy could exploit reports to clog up the communication pipeline, sow confusion, or act as a decoy for action elsewhere. The U.S. also didn’t want to admit that it couldn’t explain some of these sightings, which would “diminish it as a powerful force,” said Kean. These days, similar concerns exist regarding China, especially after the recent spy balloon fiasco.
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The Air Force then launched a follow-up called Project Grudge, whose mission was exactly what the name suggests—to explicitly dismiss and debunk the UFO issue. However, sightings kept coming in. In 1952, a year that saw hundreds of UFO sightings, most notably in Washington, D.C., the government began Project Blue Book, yet another project designed to address the mounting UFOs sightings not by proper investigation, but by convenient explanation. The CIA then formed a panel of experts to review the six years’ worth of sightings documented by Project Blue Book. After meeting for roughly 12 hours, the panel said the evidence revealed nothing worthy of further study. The government slammed the door shut on UFO investigations. “If you dismiss it, you don’t have to face it,” Kean said.
The result was no surprise, because the panel’s true goal was never to investigate the sightings. Instead, as its report makes clear, its mission was to debunk with the aim of reducing “public interest in ‘flying saucers.’ ” The panel also suggested that “this education could be accomplished by mass media such as television, motion pictures, and popular articles.” Those sentences solidified a policy of what Kean calls “sanctioned ridicule.”
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The government leveraged the fallacious association between UFOs and aliens to increase the stigma. But it’s important to remember that UFO doesn’t mean spaceship or something of extra-terrestrial origin—the term contains no such assertion. Rather, it means that the object or phenomenon cannot (yet) be identified. Conflating UFO sightings with laughable suggestions of “little green men” was another debunking and dismissing tactic, even though that association did nothing to address potential safety and/or security concerns.
Those who reported sightings—including commercial airline pilots, military pilots, and civilians—grew angry at the governmental gaslighting and at its unwillingness to properly investigate. After the conclusion of Project Blue Book, Hynek got mad, too. He advocated for real scientific inquiry into UFO cases and became a vocal critic of the government’s handling of UFOs and of its policy of ridicule
I wish I could find it now but a few years ago I listened to a podcast where a doctor argued this, essentially he said the sheer impossible distances to travel here, the incredible amount of energy needed for this travel and questions on how did they find our little planet in the first place, but his best argument was that life on earth are a product of this planet so what are the chances that another living being from another planet have exactly the same makeup of gravity and air that we humans evolved from in order to survive?, if they came from a planet with 2X the size their body's would go to crap in hurry in our gravity and same goes for if their planet was .5 of our size, and what are the chances their planet has a 80% nitrogen and 20% percent oxygen makeup in order to breathe. He didn't really say he thought UFO's were from the future but he said it's more believable than interstellar aliens.
How did they do this how did they do that?
Such an arrogant view anchored on the premise we know how the universe works when the reality is we know about a thimbles worth of water in an ocean.
Such an arrogant view anchored on the premise we know how the universe works when the reality is we know about a thimbles worth of water in an ocean.
It’s just as arrogant to assume we know about “a thimbles worth of water in an ocean.” The actual reality is that we don’t know what we don’t know.
What we do know, however, is that life on Earth is very well adapted to life on Earth. And life on a planet with a different atmosphere and overall makeup wouldn’t be. That’s not a controversial opinion any more than saying a fish is not adapted to life on land, nor are humans adapted to life under water.
I'm not sure it matters all that much, unless they are regularly doing EVA's. Pretty sure they would be able to control their own gas mix in their ships, and since they defy physics, can probably manage onboard gravity just fine, too. This seems like the least limiting factor, considering, well, everything else.
This was a wild ride of a thread after staying out of it for a week.
An interesting feature that I'm sure is beyond message board software would be anonymous threads. Some posters just set other posters right off. If you hid the usernames, it would be interesting to see this discussion.
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Originally Posted by PeteMoss
This was a wild ride of a thread after staying out of it for a week.
An interesting feature that I'm sure is beyond message board software would be anonymous threads. Some posters just set other posters right off. If you hid the usernames, it would be interesting to see this discussion.
It would be interesting to see how those conversations would have gone if it was done face to face in real life. Would they be as confrontational or more respectful
It would be interesting to see how those conversations would have gone if it was done face to face in real life. Would they be as confrontational or more respectful
People always say this. I'm the same ####### in real life. I think most (not all) posters are probably similar here to what they would be face to face. Besides, who would be afraid of a confrontation over UFOs? Present company excepted, Dion. I wouldn't #### with you my guy
It would be interesting to see how those conversations would have gone if it was done face to face in real life. Would they be as confrontational or more respectful
That's a very good question - would definitely love to see what would happen if I was told face-to-face to get bent and go kill myself, instead of doing it from behind a monitor. I'm assuming those types are time travelers themselves, so they'd just hop in their time portal and split right away.
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Originally Posted by SportsJunky
People always say this. I'm the same ####### in real life. I think most (not all) posters are probably similar here to what they would be face to face. Besides, who would be afraid of a confrontation over UFOs? Present company excepted, Dion. I wouldn't #### with you my guy
I wish I could find it now but a few years ago I listened to a podcast where a doctor argued this, essentially he said the sheer impossible distances to travel here, the incredible amount of energy needed for this travel and questions on how did they find our little planet in the first place, but his best argument was that life on earth are a product of this planet so what are the chances that another living being from another planet have exactly the same makeup of gravity and air that we humans evolved from in order to survive?, if they came from a planet with 2X the size their body's would go to crap in hurry in our gravity and same goes for if their planet was .5 of our size, and what are the chances their planet has a 80% nitrogen and 20% percent oxygen makeup in order to breathe. He didn't really say he thought UFO's were from the future but he said it's more believable than interstellar aliens.
As we learn more about quantum physics, the idea of bending or bypassing space is becoming more realistic. If we gained that ability, then surveying solar systems for intelligent life wouldn't be all that difficult. Presumably a species with that technology would also have much better ways to survey and observe planets too. So they might have a way to survey an entire section of a galaxy at once. We have satellites around our planet, we are emitting all sorts of man made electromagnetic radiation, from radio waves to gamma rays. We wouldn't be that hard to observe.
The aliens would also presumably have their own environments within their craft. Even if they did leave their crafts, I wouldn't expect them to be just walking around naked on the Earth, without any tech to protect them.
The issue with time travel is that it breaks the rules of causality. How are people traveling through time without changing their own present. And no, I don't by the idea of branching timelines, as moving any amount of matter back in time would create an infinite amount of changes.
Another problem with time travel is that the earth is constantly moving and so is our solar system. Our solar system is moving at a rate of 720,000/mph, and space itself is expanding. So if you were to travel 100 years in time, the Earth would be hundreds of billions of miles away plus you have to account for the Earth's movement relative to the solar system and the expansion of space. So, assuming time travel is possible, you're still left with the issue of traveling massive distances.
Another possibility is that it could be visitors from another dimension. Our reality is likely composed of a series of quantum, matter, and force fields. There are probably about 30 or so fields that make up our reality. There could, however, be other fields that exist within the same area that don't interact with our fields. Theoretically, there could be an infinite amount of these fields and they could form infinite amounts of realities all existing in the same physical space but never interacting with each other. The "aliens" could be beings from these other dimensions somehow accessing our dimension.
People always say this. I'm the same ####### in real life. I think most (not all) posters are probably similar here to what they would be face to face. Besides, who would be afraid of a confrontation over UFOs? Present company excepted, Dion. I wouldn't #### with you my guy
I think most people are. Generally, I think people who perceive some difference between how people are online and how they are offline are either people like Dion who are just nice dudes that don’t surround themselves with any banter, or people who project a little bit and they themselves are a little more meek/awkward and use online to say what they’d be afraid to say, which is… sad… but good for them for finding a little confidence somewhere I guess.
Most of my friend group is comprised of people who talk good #### to each other. And I certainly wasn’t raised to be afraid to tell a stranger off if they’ve overstepped. Does anybody here actually think anybody would be worried about them offline? Do people here just fantasize about throwing punches if someone says dares tell them off to their face? lol, come on.
I dunno, someone still tries to log in to my CP account almost every day. All over things I say online. Some people are just ####ed in the head, and should probably seek mental help. That kind of obsession isn't healthy.
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