2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You do realize if the we ended up with picks/prospects Conroy would just flip them for another top 6 C right? I don't think a lot of the rebuild crowd has grasped the reality yet that this team intends to try and compete now. They will either re-sign Lindholm or trade him in a hockey deal where they add another top 6 C, even if they have to add to make it work.

yeah but I think we all know things can change pretty quick and what is true today might not be in a month, few teams will want to lose a top 6 centre when they could in theory have Lindholm for free next year.
Established top 6 guys won't be offered up in my opinion

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Kind of why I wonder how much validity there was to the San Jose rumor from the draft. if he can't sign Lindholm does he go back in that direction?

Hope so.

[shutout]

From the HAT's mailbag

https://theathletic.com/4724482/2023...-office-kings/

what I’m discovering more and more is a far greater appetite than there once was — among readers, fans and even teams themselves — for the sort of complete makeover that Flyers GM Daniel Briere did to his team in June.

he made his team a lot worse — and everybody seemed to love it!

All of which is very appealing in theory. Complete do-over. Out with the old and in with the new.

The problem is the successful execution can be so difficult to complete.

The reality is a strict draft-and-develop strategy is more likely to head in the direction it did with L.A. — where the results have been very mixed.

Drafting is an inexact science. If you put all your faith in that path alone, and you get the usual share of hits and misses, you can spin and sputter just as badly as the teams desperately trying to stay in their Stanley Cup windows a year or two longer than maybe they should have. That’s what you learn from a sober look back at draft history.

GMs often get criticized for being gun-shy about rebuilds, but all of them have studied draft outcomes. They see what happens when the hype and promise of draft day slowly dissolves and then the hard work of turning these young raw talents into productive difference-making NHLers begins. The results are often not very pretty.

Have to believe that the Flames organization is thinking this exact way.
Keep your good players, change them out when they age, become to expensive, or don't want to stay. Bring in younger players that can play and have upside and continue to be competitive.

Tear it to the ground, burn it to ash, and piss on the ashes kind of rebuild that most fans want to see does not work the majority of the time and teams will only embark on the path if there is no way forward. They would prefer to retool and renovate than rebuild. This is the direction the Flames are going.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Nope. If Tkachuk was truly interested in staying at that price he would have negotiated that deal and not told the Flames he wouldn’t sign.

i think the Flames had a shot to get him on a 6 year deal in 2019 but couldn’t dump Brodie, Frolik or whoever’s salary they needed to cut to have the space to give him the $9M it likely would have took to get him to agree to 6 years.

Tkachuk said when he talked to teams during the free agent period he knew it was time to move on. I think we all knew what happened last summer was the likely outcome. Tkachuk got the market he wanted and signed a team friendly deal to get there. The low taxes, and weather were likely key to him accepting less and they were the reigning Presidents Trophy winners with Barkov, Reinhart, Bennett, Ekblad etc all being around the same age as Chucky. Based on the results of year 1 he made the right call.

I think the Flames could have dumped a player like Frolik but chose not to as they wanted to bring back the same team.

You absolutely need to lock up your young stars for as long as possible in the new NHL.

Its so much easier to plug those bottom 6 holes than it is to have top end talent. This was a huge miss by the Flames and they should be ridiculed for how things played out.

Another example is Blake Coleman. As much as I love that guy, we weren't yet in a position that a Blake Coleman would push us over the top. I have no problem with him here but its another example of cap mismanagement as 30-35pt 3rd liner wingers shouldn't be making $5mill a year.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You do realize if the we ended up with picks/prospects Conroy would just flip them for another top 6 C right? I don't think a lot of the rebuild crowd has grasped the reality yet that this team intends to try and compete now. They will either re-sign Lindholm or trade him in a hockey deal where they add another top 6 C, even if they have to add to make it work.

For the record, I disagree entirely about your opinion on this.

But, if that were to pass, it would be stupid and a bad move. We would be dealing from a position of weakness in both trades, and likely to lose both of them.

1. teams know that lindy isn't interested in staying here and will leave in FA if the flames don't trade him. This diminishes his value unless there are multiple interested bidders working against each other. This does not seem to be the case today.

2. there aren't many top 6 centres available on the market being actively shopped. Schiefele and Lindholm are basically it. So either we're using the pieces to try and trade for Schiefele (downgrade) or we are adding additional pieces and trying to pry a player out of a club that's not actively shopping. In that case we need to overpay.

I don't see how the franchise will massively benefit from engaging in two losing scenarios. Cut your losses after the first scenario.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You do realize if the we ended up with picks/prospects Conroy would just flip them for another top 6 C right? I don't think a lot of the rebuild crowd has grasped the reality yet that this team intends to try and compete now. They will either re-sign Lindholm or trade him in a hockey deal where they add another top 6 C, even if they have to add to make it work.

If there is a deal involving Lindholm to Boston, it is not going to be for a better player than he is. Rumors are something around Debrusk, which to me is terrible. I hope that one of Hanifin/Lindholm is traded for futures and the other is traded for a young(ish) center to replace Lindholm.

I think you're going to see a mix of deals, to re-tool and stay competitive. We can't keep giving up the better player in trades.

[FanIn80]

Going back to the 100pt season stuff, I thought I'd post some groupings (for lack of a better word) just to finish the whole thing off...

Players with consecutive 100pt seasons

1. (13) Wayne Gretzky
2. (6) Guy Lafleur, Mario Lemieux, Bobby Orr, Peter Stastny
3. (5) Mike Bossy, Marcel Dionne, Phil Esposito, Jari Kurri, Bryan Trottier, Steve Yzerman
4. (4) Brett Hull
5. (3) Paul Coffey, Bernie Federko, Connor McDavid (x2), Alex Ovechkin, Jeremy Roenick, Mike Rogers
6. (2) Glenn Anderson, Pavel Bure, Jimmy Carson, Bobby Clarke, Paul Coffey, Sidney Crosby (x2), Leon Draisaitl (x2), Doug Gilmour, Michel Goulet, Dany Heatley, Jaromir Jagr, Nikita Kucherov, Mario Lemieux (x2), Peter Mahovlich, Evgeni Malkin, Mark Messier (x2), Bernie Nicholls, Barry Pederson, Mark Recchi, Luc Robitaille, Joe Sakic, Denis Savard (x2), Teemu Selanne, Charlie Simmer, Kevin Stevens, Dave Taylor, Joe Thornton, Matthew Tkachuk

Players with multiple consecutive streaks

1. (3) Mario Lemieux (1x6, 2x2)
2. (2) Paul Coffey (1x3, 1x2), Sidney Crosby (2x2), Leon Draisaitl (2x2), Connor McDavid (2x3), Mark Messier (2x2), Denis Savard (2x2)

Players with separate consecutive streeks on more than one team

1. (2) Paul Coffey (1x3 EDM, 1x2 PIT)

Players with consecutive streaks that span more than one team

1. Jimmy Carson (LAK => EDM)
2. Wayne Gretzky (EDM => LAK)
3. Mike Rogers (HFD => NYR)
4. Matthew Tkachuk (CGY => FLA)

Players with consecutive streaks that span more than one team with a split season

1. Bernie Nicholls (LAK => LAK/EDM)
2. Teemu Selanne (WPG/ANA => ANA)
3. Joe Thornton (BOS/SJS => SJS)

Interesting(?) notes:

• Mike Rogers (yes, that Mike Rogers) is the only player in history to have consecutive 100pt seasons on one team, then get traded and follow up with another 100pt season on the second team (or vice versa).
• Wayne Gretzky's 13-season streak is longer than the next two longest streaks combined.

Interesting team-based notes that I've stolen from Wikipedia:

• The Boston Bruins were the first team to have four players achieve 100 points in the same season, 1970–71. The Edmonton Oilers are the only team to achieve this feat multiple times, seeing four players score 100 points three different times – 1982–83, 1983–84 and 1985–86. The Pittsburgh Penguins are the only other team to register four players with 100 points in the same season, 1992–93.
  
• The Pittsburgh Penguins have had at least one 100-point player in 23 different seasons. The Edmonton Oilers have achieved the feat in 19 different seasons, including at least one 100-point player in eleven consecutive seasons, from 1979–80 to 1989–90.
  
• The Los Angeles Kings are the only team to have two players achieve 150+ points in the same year, with Wayne Gretzky (168 points) and Bernie Nicholls (150 points) achieving this in 1988–89.
  
• Four franchises have had 100 point players before and after the entire team moved: the Hartford Whalers/Carolina Hurricanes, the Atlanta Flames/Calgary Flames, the Quebec Nordiques/Colorado Avalanche, and the Minnesota North Stars/Dallas Stars. Two franchises have had 100-point players in their original city, but not their new city: original Winnipeg Jets (now Arizona Coyotes) and Atlanta Thrashers (now Winnipeg Jets).
  
• Of the 31 franchises in the NHL in 2021–22, five have never had a player achieve a 100 point season: New Jersey Devils (started as Kansas City Scouts in 1974–75), Nashville Predators (1998–99), Columbus Blue Jackets (joined in 2000–01 season), and the two newest teams, the Vegas Golden Knights (2017–18) and Seattle Kraken (2021–22).

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

For the record, I disagree entirely about your opinion on this.

Well for the record this is not my opinion, this is the organizations opinion. This is what Edwards, Bean's, Maloney, and most importantly Conroy's opinion is. I am not opposed to rebuilding at all but that is not what the team wants to do.

[nik-]

Hasn't this LARP gone on long enough?

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Well for the record this is not my opinion, this is the organizations opinion. This is what Edwards, Bean's, Maloney, and most importantly Conroy's opinion is. I am not opposed to rebuilding at all but that is not what the team wants to do.

Honest question, but knowing all this, where is the fun in supporting this team?

They are actively resisting common sense. If this mandate is coming from ownership, the team likely has no hope of escaping mediocrity in any of our natural lifetimes. Why even bother?

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Honest question, but knowing all this, where is the fun in supporting this team?

They are actively resisting common sense. If this mandate is coming from ownership, the team likely has no hope of escaping mediocrity in any of our natural lifetimes. Why even bother?

Feel free to quit then. No one is forcing you to watch, follow the team or post.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Honest question, but knowing all this, where is the fun in supporting this team?

They are actively resisting common sense. If this mandate is coming from ownership, the team likely has no hope of escaping mediocrity in any of our natural lifetimes. Why even bother?

The question wasn't to me but isnt that for you to ask yourself?

I don't disagree with your assessment of the mediocrity we are likely to endure.
Accept it, maybe watch less hockey, maybe support another team or follow players you like, focus more on your hockey pool like all my NFL friends do.
Set yourself free if you want to, it is what it is.

I don't see any point in asking other posters that question though; there's plenty of fans here who have made it clear for years they're good with that mindset from the team.
We'll all die arguing over it before it changes, so the only decision is how you want to be a fan.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by shutout

From the HAT's mailbag

https://theathletic.com/4724482/2023...-office-kings/













Have to believe that the Flames organization is thinking this exact way.
Keep your good players, change them out when they age, become to expensive, or don't want to stay. Bring in younger players that can play and have upside and continue to be competitive.

Tear it to the ground, burn it to ash, and piss on the ashes kind of rebuild that most fans want to see does not work the majority of the time and teams will only embark on the path if there is no way forward. They would prefer to retool and renovate than rebuild. This is the direction the Flames are going.

The Flames didn't have to burn it to the ground as there was a reported offer with Carolina for Tkachuk that would have had us receiving Necas, a 1st and a top prospect, with some other pieces possibly involved.

Necas went on to lead Carolina in points, we could have added another 1st in a draft no one wanted to trade them - players like Nadeau (Suniev's linemate) and Cristall amoung a number of others were available with the 30th pick and we would have added another young prospect to the cupboards.

I think doing a move like that would have been good for the organization in the long run, much in the same vein as the Hamilton trade did. We acquired Lindholm before he broke out and it seems the same could have happened with Necas.

Hindsight and all but just because we went with a more futures based deal for Tkachuk doesn't mean we would have been going full on rebuild mode.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Well for the record this is not my opinion, this is the organizations opinion. This is what Edwards, Bean's, Maloney, and most importantly Conroy's opinion is. I am not opposed to rebuilding at all but that is not what the team wants to do.

It may well me only Edwards opinion.

The rest follow suit.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by stemit14

I suppose Boston’s top options for replacing two centres (assuming Krecji calls it a career as well) are Lindholm, Scheifele and Backlund. Their biggest problem is that they don’t have much draft or prospect capital to acquire those guys and they are already losing so many guys from their core that they likely would not want to give up any quality players from their roster.

If they are after two centres, Scheifele and Backlund would probably fit them the best. One that’s more offensively skilled one that’s a solid two-way centre. They have no first round pick until 2026 but I think it would be a smart gamble for a team to value that pick as a part of the package. I think Boston could be due for a setback in the next couple years even if they do replace Bergeron and Krecji with two of Lindholm/Backlund/Scheifele. That pick could be higher than people think. Obviously it would have to be only part of the return for Lindholm or Scheifele if Boston was serious about getting those type of players (with salary retained).

Would love to get Frederic included in any kind of deal with them but I think he’s too much of a classic bruin-type player for them to give him up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m totally with you on Frederic, I love that kid. Only problem is that he’s American…..

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Well for the record this is not my opinion, this is the organizations opinion. This is what Edwards, Bean's, Maloney, and most importantly Conroy's opinion is. I am not opposed to rebuilding at all but that is not what the team wants to do.

Well there is a lot of middle-ground. Trading Lindholm is pretty far from scorched earth. It would just mean not going all out right now(and for the next several years, whether you want to or not). You'd have to hope that Conroy is smart enough to not go all out with a non-playoff team.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Feel free to quit then. No one is forcing you to watch, follow the team or post.

I don't anymore, thanks.

Didn't ask about my own beliefs and behaviour, which you were very quick to jump to. Asking to understand.

[Hackey]

We often hear playoff revenue is important and the team needs to "win now" for financial reasons, yet the organization has only won 3 total playoff rounds in the last 20 years.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Hackey

We often hear playoff revenue is important and the team needs to "win now" for financial reasons, yet the organization has only won 3 total playoff rounds in the last 20 years.

5 rounds 6 if you include the play-in. Not good by any stretch but also not hard facts to know if you are a fan of the team.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I don't anymore, thanks.

Didn't ask about my own beliefs and behaviour, which you were very quick to jump to. Asking to understand.

Is this a serious question? You don’t know how people could have fun following a team that’s not managed the way they want? lol