Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Slava]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

The CPP isn't the same as OAS and GIS. The biggest hint is that the wealthier you are, the less OAS and GIS you're entitled to. With CPP, the more you make, the more you pay. And the more you pay, the more you receive. A pension plan is supposed to be something like the future value you receive as an old person is equivalent to all the money you contributed, plus the return on that money .

Except that for CPP silent generation and Boomers get more than they paid in and everyone younger gets less than they paid in. There's a cross generational subsidy that AB can take advantage of if they leave the system. That's why Smith can promise both lower premiums and higher entitlements.

With regards to your concern on investment mix, it's a fair criticism. But I'd suggest that CPPIB does a lot more of the mark-to-model valuations of private assets that drives their returns, which are arguably substantially detached from reality (especially as interest rates rise). And it's very clear that CPP pays huge fees, both to internal staff and external managers, which creates a lot of conflicts of interest. Between the two issues, there's something going on there that should be investigated, but no one cares because they just look at the high level returns.

I don't think that there's a conflict, I just think that private assets in general lag because of appraisals and the like. It makes things look nice and smooth for the CPPIB for a year like 2022, but the reality is that if you tried to sell a piece of property, you probably got less than that last appraisal price.

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Its an interesting idea that doesn't work well in reality. I'm all for the idea of a more conscientious form of capitalism, but ESG isn't it. It's super corrupted and open to further corruption by politicians and unelected officials. You can read about all the ways on various blogs, FT, WSJ, etc.



Here is one such article: https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/h...g-esg-ratings/

Do you have another source than Free Beacon?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Slava

I don't think that there's a conflict, I just think that private assets in general lag because of appraisals and the like. It makes things look nice and smooth for the CPPIB for a year like 2022, but the reality is that if you tried to sell a piece of property, you probably got less than that last appraisal price.

Fair enough, but when the big pitch is "look how great my Sharpe Ratio is" nobody seems to mention the part about how volatility is artificially suppressed in these private alternatives.

[GordonBlue]

This makes me sad.

Calgary clinic asks for nearly $5K a year for a 2-parent membership — and it's not the only one

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...care-1.6915978

Calgarian Robin Arseneault visited her doctor's office in Marda Loop recently for a routine physical. So the couple was surprised to see an email land from the Marda Loop Medical Clinic in their inbox that same week, stating that the clinic would be moving to a membership system.

In an email sent to the clinic's members, Dr. Sally Talbot-Jones wrote that the clinic's aim was to alleviate stress expressed by patients due to extended waiting times, the challenge of scheduling family appointments, and more.

"This decision was driven by my commitment to providing you with the level of care you deserve. I have extensively researched the most successful healthcare models around the world, and I am confident that our new program is designed to deliver excellence," Talbot-Jones wrote.



bull####. it's purely money driven. We're going to see a lot more of this. With the doctor shortages and the state of healthcare, why wouldn't doctors grift like anyone else?

[Fuzz]

You can guarantee these doctors are seeing fewer patients per day, which is basically like removing family doctors from the system, who we have a shortage of. Whatever the technicalities of the Canada Health Act, this privatization makes healthcare worse, and if it starts catching on (there doesn't seem to be any way to block it) why wouldn't all the good doctors do this as well? And what does that leave people who can't afford to pay?

[indes]

Doesn't seem like good value to me. 5k for shorter wait times and longer visits? Who even needs that? I can book an appointment with my doctor at their clinic and I don't recall ever being booted out early. Also if I don't want to wait I just show up first thing in the morning right when they open. Hopefully this fails miserably and people just switch clinics, 5k isn't chump change when you can get the pretty much the same service for free.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

This makes me sad.

Calgary clinic asks for nearly $5K a year for a 2-parent membership — and it's not the only one

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...care-1.6915978

Calgarian Robin Arseneault visited her doctor's office in Marda Loop recently for a routine physical. So the couple was surprised to see an email land from the Marda Loop Medical Clinic in their inbox that same week, stating that the clinic would be moving to a membership system.

In an email sent to the clinic's members, Dr. Sally Talbot-Jones wrote that the clinic's aim was to alleviate stress expressed by patients due to extended waiting times, the challenge of scheduling family appointments, and more.

"This decision was driven by my commitment to providing you with the level of care you deserve. I have extensively researched the most successful healthcare models around the world, and I am confident that our new program is designed to deliver excellence," Talbot-Jones wrote.

bull####. it's purely money driven. We're going to see a lot more of this. With the doctor shortages and the state of healthcare, why wouldn't doctors grift like anyone else?

We have these clinics for years. I still remember looking at Copeman, Preventous, Provital at least ten years ago when we couldn't find a doctor. Doesn't make it kosher but not sure why all of a sudden people didn't know about this.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by fotze2

We have these clinics for years. I still remember looking at Copeman, Preventous, Provital at least ten years ago when we couldn't find a doctor. Doesn't make it kosher but not sure why all of a sudden people didn't know about this.

We knew, and it states as much in the article. But it's rearing it's ugly head again and conditions are ripe for it to expand.

As as to indes comment that he doesn't need it. What if this does catch on this time, and his doctor implements the same thing?. He'll be in the same boat as the people in the article.

It's hard enough to get a doctor now, if even a few more being membership fees, won't take long to have a domino effect on the system.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

This makes me sad.

Calgary clinic asks for nearly $5K a year for a 2-parent membership — and it's not the only one

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...care-1.6915978

Calgarian Robin Arseneault visited her doctor's office in Marda Loop recently for a routine physical. So the couple was surprised to see an email land from the Marda Loop Medical Clinic in their inbox that same week, stating that the clinic would be moving to a membership system.

In an email sent to the clinic's members, Dr. Sally Talbot-Jones wrote that the clinic's aim was to alleviate stress expressed by patients due to extended waiting times, the challenge of scheduling family appointments, and more.

"This decision was driven by my commitment to providing you with the level of care you deserve. I have extensively researched the most successful healthcare models around the world, and I am confident that our new program is designed to deliver excellence," Talbot-Jones wrote.



bull####. it's purely money driven. We're going to see a lot more of this. With the doctor shortages and the state of healthcare, why wouldn't doctors grift like anyone else?

This is legal?

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

We knew, and it states as much in the article. But it's rearing it's ugly head again and conditions are ripe for it to expand.

As as to indes comment that he doesn't need it. What if this does catch on this time, and his doctor implements the same thing?. He'll be in the same boat as the people in the article.

It's hard enough to get a doctor now, if even a few more being membership fees, won't take long to have a domino effect on the system.

I see one of the docs at my clinic is at one of the private-co's. I hate these clinics with a passion but just have never felt completely right hating them. Its a total conflict in my head. Its like the old George Carlin bit on prostitution. I don't want two-tier health but I also don't think its right to limit someone from selling their perfectly helpful services that they spent great expense and time procuring for profit. I guess you could argue society paid for that training but they also did for engineering or finance, or whatever.

Selling is legal and fataing is legal, why isn't selling fataing legal?


https://preventous.com/calgary-priva...-medical-cost/

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by fotze2

I see one of the docs at my clinic is at one of the private-co's. I hate these clinics with a passion but just have never felt completely right hating them. Its a total conflict in my head. Its like the old George Carlin bit on prostitution. I don't want two-tier health but I also don't think its right to limit someone from selling their perfectly helpful services that they spent great expense and time procuring for profit. I guess you could argue society paid for that training but they also did for engineering or finance, or whatever.

Selling is legal and fataing is legal, why isn't selling fataing legal?


https://preventous.com/calgary-priva...-medical-cost/

I think the easy answer is that Canada doesn't have a Universal Fataing system to ensure all of it's citizens receive equal Fataing without regard for their financial position.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by belsarius

I think the easy answer is that Canada doesn't have a Universal Fataing system to ensure all of it's citizens receive equal Fataing without regard for their financial position.

Does it actually say equal (genuinely curious) or adequate? Because if it is equal then ya, these should be illegal. Go easy, just chatting about it.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

This is legal?

it is, because they're not selling their medical professional services, but selling access to those services. bit of a loophole.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by fotze2

We have these clinics for years. I still remember looking at Copeman, Preventous, Provital at least ten years ago when we couldn't find a doctor. Doesn't make it kosher but not sure why all of a sudden people didn't know about this.

I’ll ask that in the future you keep things like that to yourself fotze. Because for some of us who do know about these private options it really makes it extra entertaining whenever someone who either doesn’t know or pretends they don’t know about them argues that privatization will help the system they claim is broken and getting worse when it already has proven to not do that.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by fotze2

Does it actually say equal (genuinely curious) or adequate? Because if it is equal then ya, these should be illegal. Go easy, just chatting about it.

I think my response didn't com across as tongue in cheek as I meant it to be. I totally agree when it comes to prostitutions, I was just trying to make a funny that we don't have guaranteed universal prostitution.

It actually says "uniform terms and conditions" which I read as equal. Regardless of how much money I have, I should be entitled to the same services with the same terms and conditions as any other citizen of the province.

Universality

10 In order to satisfy the criterion respecting universality, the health care insurance plan of a province must entitle one hundred per cent of the insured persons of the province to the insured health services provided for by the plan on uniform terms and conditions.

As noted, the issue is that access to the medicentre is not a health service and thus not giving different terms and conditions to the services itself. Its a ####ty little loophole, but it doesn't actually prevent someone from receiving medical care, it just forces them to now travel farther or clog up the ER.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

it is, because they're not selling their medical professional services, but selling access to those services. bit of a loophole.

I was reading they also offer a free to public day once a week, which also checks a few other boxes about allowing universal access.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

You can guarantee these doctors are seeing fewer patients per day, which is basically like removing family doctors from the system, who we have a shortage of. Whatever the technicalities of the Canada Health Act, this privatization makes healthcare worse, and if it starts catching on (there doesn't seem to be any way to block it) why wouldn't all the good doctors do this as well? And what does that leave people who can't afford to pay?

How do you know that?

The problem is our Healthcare System, that we have benefited from for the past 50+ years, is chronically underfunded. And because our government is creating laws which limits our Country from capitalizing on the development of our resources, there is no long range plan or hope to prevent the System from getting worse.

Therefore, we have to make changes, and change is always one of the most difficult thing to accept.

At least having a two tier system accomplishes two things:

1. It makes the rich pay more

2. It takes some of the pressure off the system.

Some doctors will want to stay small, and form their own clinic, and others will join the bigger organizations with pensions, etc..

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

At least having a two tier system accomplishes two things:

1. It makes the rich pay more

2. It takes some of the pressure off the system.

Nope. What you need to remember is that the system - public or private - pulls from the same pool of resources, which is, qualified individuals who can perform healthcare services. Pulling from one takes away from the other. And in a public model, sufficient funding, combined with continuous improvement, can be a model for most, if not all Canadians.

And this quagmire exists with all public/private resourcing debates, which is something people often forget when they say things like "small government" or "fire the taxpayer-paid employees". The public sector needs to compete with the private for the same finite resources.

And while there are plenty of physicians who will provide services to the rich (including non-essential services), there are just as many - if not more - that feel a sense of duty to the general public and whom view healthcare as a right for everyone on equal footing. Which is to say, the Hippocratic Oath is not something taken lightly by doctors across the country.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

How do you know that?

The problem is our Healthcare System, that we have benefited from for the past 50+ years, is chronically underfunded. And because our government is creating laws which limits our Country from capitalizing on the development of our resources, there is no long range plan or hope to prevent the System from getting worse.

Therefore, we have to make changes, and change is always one of the most difficult thing to accept.

At least having a two tier system accomplishes two things:

1. It makes the rich pay more

2. It takes some of the pressure off the system.

Some doctors will want to stay small, and form their own clinic, and others will join the bigger organizations with pensions, etc..

Because it's right there in the first sentence. Removing doctors from serving the general public to make more money serving fewer patients.

You make no case for your #2. This stuff is so simple and basic it blows my mind that people make statements like you just have. It makes no sense. In a world with excess healthcare professionals that's a conversation that maybe could be had. But we don't live in that world. Which means every doctor removed from the public system to serve fewer patients privately reduces the number of patients served, entirely on the back of the public system. Why is this so hard to understand?

[Fuzz]

And if our system is chronically underfunded, here's a crazy idea. Fund it more. If that means taxing the rich more, aren't you just taking those dollars they have for private care and spreading them to everyone? Then everyone can have good care. Seems fair, no? Or are some pigs more equal than others?