Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Locke]

Are we still talking about this?

The CERB rollout was a debacle of monumental proportions, but it was an absolutely necessary evil.

Nobody got it right, and absolutely nobody got it perfect but in emergencies we cant let perfect be the enemy of good.

And yeah, there are going to be consequences, as a matter of fact they're kicking us in the teeth right now.

I just dont see any plausible alternative and criticizing it in hindsight is disingenuous.

You want to criticize the collection of erroneous payments currently now that the 'Sword of Damocles' is no longer over our heads? Sure, go ahead., thats fair game, but the roll-out was pure panicked desperation and frankly, I'm not interested in pointing fingers of blame on that one.

What aggravates me is that there are lessons that we as a people and as a Government and a nation should have learned to be prepared for 'next time' and we're not learning them. We're actively ignoring them.

So when this happens again, and I stress 'when' we are once again going to be woefully unprepared.

And that pisses me off.

[Jacks]

Of course we're still talking about this, it's tens or hundreds of billions of dollars of debt.

I specifically did not go into CERB if you bothered to read the post. And it's not hindsight if I have been saying this since the beginning of the pandemic.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Of course we're still talking about this, it's tens or hundreds of billions of dollars of debt.

I specifically did not go into CERB if you bothered to read the post. And it's not hindsight if I have been saying this since the beginning of the pandemic.

Which governments outside of Canada got it right, in your opinion?

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Which governments outside of Canada got it right, in your opinion?

Whataboutism, I don't care if everyone else was jumping off the bridge nor have I looked into the programs that other countries ran.

Am I wrong about CEWS and CEBA?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Whataboutism, I don't care if everyone else was jumping off the bridge nor have I looked into the programs that other countries ran.

Am I wrong about CEWS and CEBA?

It’s not whataboutism. If you think things were done wrong and believe they were done wrong from the beginning, you have to have some point of reference for what “right” looks like. Otherwise you were just complaining for the sake of complaining, and saying “Oh I was complaining from the beginning!” doesn’t mean anything to anyone.

I doubt there is a government out there that couldn’t have done a significantly better job in retrospect. So what?

As Locke said, the issue worth talking about is whether we’re doing enough today to ensure we’ve learned from those mistakes and are prepared for the next unprecedented global event and… uh… we’re not, so that’s definitely worth criticising. That’s incredibly frustrating.

But complaining about the reaction to that kind of event with zero education on what a “good” reaction theoretically looks like is pretty pointless. You might as well just get over it at that point.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Whataboutism, I don't care if everyone else was jumping off the bridge nor have I looked into the programs that other countries ran.

[evman150]

Originally Posted by Jacks

nor have I looked into the programs that other countries ran.

Sounds about right. Typical far-right take down of Liberal policies without a hint of substance to contribute.

[Scroopy Noopers]

*meteor hits earth and #### hits the fan*
…. ####ing Trudeau.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

It’s not very complicated. Growth in federal spending has contributed to inflation.

Nobody is blaming Trudeau for Covid spending, it’s the spending prior to covid and post covid that are problematic.

Carbon tax also contributes to inflation.

There are things the government can control that are contributing to inflation.

Canada has lower inflation than the USA and the USA does not have a carbon tax. Maybe the carbon tax reduces inflation? Why would Canada have lower inflation than the USA Doctor?

[Doctorfever]

The carbon tax does not reduce inflation. It adds to inflation.

Are you really wanting to argue that???

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

The carbon tax does not reduce inflation. It adds to inflation.

Are you really wanting to argue that???

You should read aaronck's post response to an earlier post made by you. Looks like consensus is that carbon taxes and inflation have no correlation.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

The carbon tax does not reduce inflation. It adds to inflation.

Are you really wanting to argue that???

What makes you think it has a significant impact?

I think it probably adds very slightly to inflation, but nothing that has any real impact (probably a tenth of a point in the long term).

And honestly, you could probably make an argument that it puts downward pressure on inflation over the long term because of how it helps dampen demand for the more volatile energy sources.

For instance, 15 years ago gasoline made up nearly 6% of the CPI basket, whereas it's 3.89% now. So while the price was lower back then, people had to devote more of their spending to it. And that applies to energy in general. 15 years ago it made up over 10% of the CPI basket; now it's 6.78%, a ~33% reduction.

Energy is one of the biggest drivers of inflation because of its volatility. Anything that shifts spending away from the more volatile energy sources will tend to help stabilize prices.

[Doctorfever]

https://www.taxpayer.com/newsroom/hi...ment-inflation

The objective of the federal carbon tax is to increase prices. The government’s own numbers show the carbon tax increases the price of gas by 14 cents per litre, the price of diesel by 17 cents per litre and the price of natural gas by 12 cents per cubic metre. By 2030, Trudeau’s carbon taxes will increase the price of gas by 55 cents per litre.

The head of Bank of Canada, who is raising rates to combat the rising cost of living, acknowledged that Trudeau’s carbon tax pours fuel on the inflation fire.

https://globalnews.ca/news/8681032/b...-half-a-point/

The federal carbon tax has boosted inflation by nearly half-a-percentage point, Bank of Canada Governor Tiff Macklem told members of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance in a letter obtained by Global News

Carbon tax contributes to inflation. End of story.

[opendoor]

Not sure if whoever wrote that Global story is ignorant, or if they're intentionally being misleading. The carbon tax has not "boosted inflation" by 0.4 points, and Macklem never said that. He said that if it were removed entirely, that the rate of inflation would temporarily be 0.4 percentage points lower. That's because it would create a one-time reduction in prices. It's like saying if you cut off your leg, you'd lose weight. That's true, but it would be incorrect to say that having 2 legs is "boosting" your weight gain.


As mentioned later in that article, the actual effect of the carbon tax on year-over-year price increases is about one-tenth of a percentage point.

In his letter to finance committee members, Macklem repeated an observation he made at the committee’s March 3 meeting that the annual increase in what he called the “carbon pollution charge” was adding 0.1 points to the consumer price index each year. In other words, he said, had the federal carbon tax not increased, inflation in January would have been 5.0 per cent instead of 5.1 per cent.

[Doctorfever]

Borrow me $51 I’ll pay you back $50.

It’s not a big deal.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I am.
While spending was obviously needed (and a lot of it) the programs put in place were poorly thought out and poorly executed. How many billions of dollars of debt could have been saved? we'll never know for sure but it's a lot.

I'm only willing to relitigate this issue if ypu admit the CPC was pushing for more money to be sent and not less. It's easy to throw mud at the governments response and say it was a pile of money, because it implies that the opposition would've spent less. That's just not the case though. The CPC wanted more money spent and just conveniently let's that slide these days.

https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/pol...1_5548837.html

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5744222

[evman150]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Borrow me $51 I’ll pay you back $50.

It’s not a big deal.

5% of $50 is $2.50.

5.1% of $50 is $2.55.

So it’s not an extra dollar on fifty dollars, it’s an extra five cents.

Also, the verb you were looking for is “lend,” not borrow.

[Jacks]

And just like that all the Liberal apologists who pretend that they don't like the current government emerge from their slumber.

[Jacks]

It’s not whataboutism. If you think things were done wrong and believe they were done wrong from the beginning, you have to have some point of reference for what “right” looks like. Otherwise you were just complaining for the sake of complaining, and saying “Oh I was complaining from the beginning!” doesn’t mean anything to anyone.

I specifically said how the programs could been done better and had basic safe guards, did you even read what I posted?

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by evman150

Sounds about right. Typical far-right take down of Liberal policies without a hint of substance to contribute.

I noticed you ignore the second part of that post, just made is disappear. You can't defend the incompetence so you attack, try to make me the bad guy.