Ongoing Sci-Fi, Comic Book Movie Thread v2

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

Wasn't there a time when they were just going to kill the Flash movie? Like, just not release it? I mean, they knew it was a stinker and yet changed their minds and released it anyway?

No, the execs, especially Gunn thought they could hitch their DCEU wagon to this movie and pushed it even with all of the issues surrounding Miller. It was a terrible idea and really should signal the end of this universe bull#### in DC. It was done and failed, move along.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by photon

Far below Wakanda Forever and below Quantumania, at least those had some redeeming moments or performances or some quality VFX.

At this point I just group everything by "would watch again" and "would not watch again", and they all fall into the would not watch again category.

Well I wont disagree with that as I class them in more or less the same way.

Short of 'A Clockwork Orange-ing' me to a chair theres no way I'd watch any of those three films ever again.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

If you ignore the sequels (especially Glass) there's a pretty strong argument that Unbreakable is the best superhero movie ever made.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by blankall

It's hard to say Infinity War was a "peak" for the whole genre, when you have The Dark Knight taking home oscars and getting 8 nominations.

Outside of Ledgers performance, I thought the Nolan films were mediocre. Scarecrow was pretty good too.

There was a clear trend of superhero movies getting better leading up to Infinity War and a clear trend of them getting worse after.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by blankall

It's hard to say Infinity War was a "peak" for the whole genre, when you have The Dark Knight taking home oscars and getting 8 nominations.

Okay, maybe not in terms of 'Academy Recognition' but I'd agree that Infinity War was the 'peak' of comic book films. That movie was an absolute masterpiece.

[photon]

One argument for Infinity War being the peak is the unprecedented and impressive long term story arc with groundwork being laid down for so long for payoffs in far flung movies.

Truly impressive and it seams like even Marvel won't be able to match that again.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by photon

One argument for Infinity War being the peak is the unprecedented and impressive long term story arc with groundwork being laid down for so long for payoffs in far flung movies.

Truly impressive and it seams like even Marvel won't be able to match that again.

Yeah. I think in our lifetimes what Marvel did with their films leading up to Infinity War/Endgame was nothing less than a genuine 'Cinematic Event.'

I dont think ever before has any studio ever built up an epic universe with dozens of characters, interwoven over a decade and a dozen-plus movies and team-ups and cross-overs to culminate in a finale like that.

Love it, hate it, whatever, you cant help but admire and respect it.

That was the textbook execution of a tight plan and it was pretty epic.

If someone said to me that the pinnacle of comic book films of all time was 'Infinity War' I would not be inclined to argue with them.

And yeah...I sincerely doubt they could do it again.

Largely because, frankly, I also sincerely doubt that any of us sitting in the theater in 2008 anticipating 'Iron Man' had the faintest clue as to the ride we were about to go on.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Matata

Outside of Ledgers performance, I thought the Nolan films were mediocre. Scarecrow was pretty good too.

There was a clear trend of superhero movies getting better leading up to Infinity War and a clear trend of them getting worse after.

I don't agree with that characterization of the patter either. The MCU opened with a bang...then was mediocre, Avengers was good, but then things got bad again. But then they got good after Winter Soldier/GotG and stayed pretty good until Infinity War.

A lot of it was just luck though. It wasn't as though it was great planning that led to movies like GotG being good, they just had a string of great movies. We kind of forget about Age of Ultron and GotG2 were peppered in that, otherwise great, run.

I'd argue that most of the films there were pretty independent, they just managed to his lightning in a bottle with so many great ones in the same time period. They then went in with the same characters, writers, etc.. for sequels on those same franchises, and all of the follow up sequels were inferior.

Basically, it wasn't a pattern of the MCU getting better and better. They stumbled all over the place, then had a mostly great run right before Infinity War, and then were never able to reproduce that run, despite nothing fundamentally changing.

And no, the Nolan films were not just mediocre. Begins is a great movie in itself. TDK is one of the best action movies ever made. You're setting the bar pretty high for superhero movies if an Academy Award for best supporting actor, amazing visuals, and amazing action pieces get labeled as "mediocre".

[Matata]

MCU phase 1 was experimental, but they locked in during phase 2 with a streak of: Winter Soldier > GotG > Ultron > Antman > Civil war > Dr Strange > GotG 2 > Homecoming > Ragnarok > Black Panther > Infinity War. That was no accident, they figure it out.

I didn't want to say mean things about the Nolan films, but: the only reason DK got AA statues was Ledgers death and it was mostly technical awards (that or it was a super weak year for technical performances). The Nolan films are packed with so much idiotic garbage they make the Adam West Batman seem more plausible (poisoning a whole city, mountains of money, terrible dialogue, all police trapped underground for a month, banes marble mouth). Which isn't really out-of-bounds for a batman movie, but it always presented itself as this realistic, gritty movie and insisted that you accepted all it's goofy BS as high art.

[ResAlien]

Ledger’s Tom Waits impression was fun but Begins was a better all around movie. TDK definitely got the dead actor bump. It’s not bad but I’d be hard pressed to categorize it anywhere near the best action film ever made. It’s a fine film that has its fair share of plot holes itself.

Bane was great but that film had plot holes big enough to drive the island of Guam through. Oh and that goofy ass ending.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Ledger’s Tom Waits impression was fun but Begins was a better all around movie. TDK definitely got the dead actor bump. It’s not bad but I’d be hard pressed to categorize it anywhere near the best action film ever made. It’s a fine film that has its fair share of plot holes itself.

Bane was great but that film had plot holes big enough to drive the island of Guam through. Oh and that goofy ass ending.

Agreed. Begins was the better movie. The Dark Knight is overrated, while still being great.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Matata

MCU phase 1 was experimental, but they locked in during phase 2 with a streak of: Winter Soldier > GotG > Ultron > Antman > Civil war > Dr Strange > GotG 2 > Homecoming > Ragnarok > Black Panther > Infinity War. That was no accident, they figure it out.

I didn't want to say mean things about the Nolan films, but: the only reason DK got AA statues was Ledgers death and it was mostly technical awards (that or it was a super weak year for technical performances). The Nolan films are packed with so much idiotic garbage they make the Adam West Batman seem more plausible (poisoning a whole city, mountains of money, terrible dialogue, all police trapped underground for a month, banes marble mouth). Which isn't really out-of-bounds for a batman movie, but it always presented itself as this realistic, gritty movie and insisted that you accepted all it's goofy BS as high art.

A lot of the complaints you're going on about are in the Rise of the Dark Knight. That was a fun, at times, but very flawed movie. Still better than End Game though. Apparently Captain Marvel could have just flown directly through Thanos' ship at any time.... but was off world, as she had other things to do....instead of stopping Thanos from gathering the Infinity Stones and wiping out half the population of many planets?

[Matata]

It's much more acceptable for the MCU to do goofy BS because they aren't trying to convince anyone they are anything more than a fun action-film, it never breaks the tone or narrative when they put that stuff in (or it didn't during the glory years).

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Matata

It's much more acceptable for the MCU to do goofy BS because they aren't trying to convince anyone they are anything more than a fun action-film, it never breaks the tone or narrative when they put that stuff in (or it didn't during the glory years).

Nolan Batman was never meant to be totally realistic. Crane drugging people and attempting to drug the water supply was totally on tone.

[Hack&Lube]

The problem with Marvel right now is that after Infinity War, they keep pushing out content on Disney Plus and on movie screens with 3rd rate characters that people don't care about and cannot carry their own show. Yes there are going to be outliers like GoTG which created its own energy and stars and Ant Man was passable in the beginning but overall there's nobody audiences are really buzzed to see like Robert Downey Jr. etc.

Tom Holland's Spider-Man is the closest thing they got but I snoozed through the last two movies as they were post-infinity war and just felt like they were tacked onto the universe. where all the greats had already passed on.

If I was Feige, I would stop pumping out mediocrity, give the audiences time to rest, and find his next Robert Downey Jr. and a strong cast that can stand up to that main character. without being drowned out. I would then focus those actors around the few household name franchises they have left - that being X-Men and Fantastic 4 which they only just re-aquired. Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman can make the X-Men universe work by their sheer charisma but I highly doubt that John Krasinski as Mr. Fantastic is going to drive audiences into a new phase of MCU.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

The problem with Marvel right now is that after Infinity War, they keep pushing out content on Disney Plus and on movie screens with 3rd rate characters that people don't care about and cannot carry their own show. Yes there are going to be outliers like GoTG which created its own energy and stars and Ant Man was passable in the beginning but overall there's nobody audiences are really buzzed to see like Robert Downey Jr. etc.

Tom Holland's Spider-Man is the closest thing they got but I snoozed through the last two movies as they were post-infinity war and just felt like they were tacked onto the universe. where all the greats had already passed on.

If I was Feige, I would stop pumping out mediocrity, give the audiences time to rest, and find his next Robert Downey Jr. and a strong cast that can stand up to that main character. without being drowned out. I would then focus those actors around the few household name franchises they have left - that being X-Men and Fantastic 4 which they only just re-aquired. Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman can make the X-Men universe work by their sheer charisma but I highly doubt that John Krasinski as Mr. Fantastic is going to drive audiences into a new phase of MCU.

This is sort of what lost me from Comic Books initially. Too many re-boots, re-brands, taking characters and making them different people, different universes, adding chaff to dilute the wheat, etc.

[KTrain]

I completely forgot that Aquaman 2 is coming out in December. What a tire fire of a year WB is going to have. There's no way they sink any money into marketing that movie.

Warner Bros.’ Quest to Build a Better ‘Aquaman’ Sequel: 3 Reshoots, Two Batmans and Non-Stop Test Screenings
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/mo...ts-1235532158/

[Nadal Fan]

Originally Posted by KTrain

I completely forgot that Aquaman 2 is coming out in December. What a tire fire of a year WB is going to have. There's no way they sink any money into marketing that movie.

Warner Bros.’ Quest to Build a Better ‘Aquaman’ Sequel: 3 Reshoots, Two Batmans and Non-Stop Test Screenings
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/mo...ts-1235532158/

The first one made over a BILLION dollars and now WB has fumbled the ball so bad this may not even make 20% of the first one. WB really has no clue what they are doing

[Knut]

Why does everything need a multi-verse now ?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by KTrain

I completely forgot that Aquaman 2 is coming out in December. What a tire fire of a year WB is going to have. There's no way they sink any money into marketing that movie.

Heres the thing...even though movies like Batman vs. Superman, Justice League, Aquaman, etc. made box office bank...they were bad.

I think the absolute slaughter of the Flash at the Box Office is a good indicator that DC/WB has burned through all of the goodwill their IPs had.

I cant even imagine what would compel someone who has been following the DCEU and seeing its current trajectory to go and see Aquaman 2.

And even if DC/WB doubled down and marketed the hell out of that movie...I'm not sure it's going to move the needle.

Release Aquaman 2, pump out the crap you've already made and try and mitigate some losses and move on from there.

They really need to burn this thing to the ground and salt the Earth.