2022 Freedumb Convoy(s) Thread

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

The same Islamophobes are now stirring up anti-LGBTQ sentiments in the Muslim community.

You know they don't need to go outside of the religion of Islam to find said sentiments, right? They already exist.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

You know they don't need to go outside of the religion of Islam to find said sentiments, right? They already exist.

Yup totally. I agree with CroFlames above too, more people are coming from anti-LGBT places. I mean LGTBQIA2S+ is a fairly new and western concept, and very recently the parts after L and G. It's not a left wing-right wing issue for them, it's about 'their' moral value.

It is totally hypocritical. You want the school to recognize Ramadan but not a cross dresser doing storytime.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2...s-arent-bigots

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Yup totally. I agree with CroFlames above too, more people are coming from anti-LGBT places. I mean LGTBQIA2S+ is a fairly new and western concept, and very recently the parts after L and G. It's not a left wing-right wing issue for them, it's about 'their' moral value.

It is totally hypocritical. You want the school to recognize Ramadan but not a cross dresser doing storytime.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2...s-arent-bigots

That writer is a lying piece of ####

Worse still, children are expected to attend events in which drag shows and other actions deemed immoral by many people of faith are showcased.

No one is forcing any kids to "drag shows". Dress up storytimes are usually in public libraries where anyone is welcome to come, I've never heard of one happening in a school with mandatory attendance. Oh and if you have to start off your article by stressing that you're not a bigot in the title, then you're probably a ####ing bigot

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Yup totally. I agree with CroFlames above too, more people are coming from anti-LGBT places. I mean LGTBQIA2S+ is a fairly new and western concept, and very recently the parts after L and G. It's not a left wing-right wing issue for them, it's about 'their' moral value.

It is totally hypocritical. You want the school to recognize Ramadan but not a cross dresser doing storytime.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2...s-arent-bigots

Would be very interested to see the stats for 1st vs 2nd/3rd, etc generations in these beliefs.

[Fuzz]

It boils down to moral values rooted firmly in one’s faith

That doesn't excuse you from being a bigot. Here's the problem. Your faiths are wrong, and you are weaponizing them to repress people. It's OK to ignore the parts that make you a bad human being.

Oh man...

This is state-sponsored ideological indoctrination of toddlers who can barely form complete sentences, much less think critically.

This isn't indoctrination, it's education. For indoctrination, see your own religions. Unreal the blinders these people wear. And this guy is apparently educated? AlJazeera should be ashamed of this piece, what a load of logically flawed arguments.

[FunkMasterFlame]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

No one is forcing any kids to "drag shows". Dress up storytimes are usually in public libraries where anyone is welcome to come, I've never heard of one happening in a school with mandatory attendance. Oh and if you have to start off your article by stressing that you're not a bigot in the title, then you're probably a ####ing bigot

The Toronto District School Board recently allowed for parents to opt-out students from attending in-school drag queen story time events. Now some activists and teachers are very upset about this policy, labeling the students/parents who choose to opt-out of these events as "harmful" and "dangerous".


https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/202...ding-firm.html

Parents and staff are demanding that the Toronto District School Board stop allowing students to opt out of drag queen storytime events.

“(The storytime opt-out policy) panders to the dangerous and wrong-headed belief that a drag queen reading a story hurts children,” Ain wrote in his June 15 letter. “It is dangerous as it ‘others’ 2SLGBTQ+ people, including the storyteller, and almost certainly some of the students and staff.”

Rico Rodriguez, a gay teacher who has worked at the board for 32 years and has been involved in supporting and developing 2SLGBTQIA+ policies, workshops and events since the 1990s, said the opt-out sets back the TDSB’s efforts.


“All the work that I have done myself personally and that others did before me has been destroyed, just by that statement that you can opt out, and that’s not right.”

The school board made the right decision here, but these activist types certainly seem to think that students should be forced to attend in-school drag queen story times, and are fighting for the opt-out policy to be reversed.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by FunkMasterFlame

The Toronto District School Board recently allowed for parents to opt-out students from attending in-school drag queen story time events. Now some activists and teachers are very upset about this policy, labeling the students/parents who choose to opt-out of these events as "harmful" and "dangerous".


https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/202...ding-firm.html

The school board made the right decision here, but these activist types certainly seem to think that students should be forced to attend in-school drag queen story times, and are fighting for the opt-out policy to be reversed.

Should students be allowed to opt out of event if the presenter was say a specific race?

"I don't approve of Black culture because it is all gangs and drugs. My Kid shouldn't have to listen to a storytime if the presenter is Black"

I would think we would all agree that this statement is pretty bigoted.

And yet we will allow them to opt out because we don't like the flamboyant way the readers are dressing? How is that any less bigoted?

[FunkMasterFlame]

A persons race is an immutable characteristic that they have no control over. A man flamboyantly dressing up as a woman is not.

A lot of people believe that Drag Queens are a sexualized fetish and should not be promoted towards their children.

Parents have had the option of opting-out their children from sex education classes for a long time, that was the basis that the TDSB made their decision on.

As a 90s kid I often remember certain classmates having to leave class when sex-ed topics came up. Should they not have been allowed to opt-out of sexual teachings that their parents disagreed with? Were they bigoted for having done so back then? Are they bigoted now for not wanting, what they believe to be a sexual activity, of having a Drag Queen to read to their child?

Maybe, maybe not. Its a tricky question that has no easy answers.

But I do believe that parents should have the freedom to opt-out their children from Drag Queen storytimes, and that nobody should be forced into participating. Choosing not to participate brings no harm and is not dangerous to anyone.

[habernac]

A lot of people are stupid.

[firebug]

Originally Posted by FunkMasterFlame

A persons race is an immutable characteristic that they have no control over. A man flamboyantly dressing up as a woman is not.

A lot of people believe that Drag Queens are a sexualized fetish and should not be promoted towards their children.

Parents have had the option of opting-out their children from sex education classes for a long time, that was the basis that the TDSB made their decision on.

As a 90s kid I often remember certain classmates having to leave class when sex-ed topics came up. Should they not have been allowed to opt-out of sexual teachings that their parents disagreed with? Were they bigoted for having done so back then? Are they bigoted now for not wanting, what they believe to be a sexual activity, of having a Drag Queen to read to their child?

Maybe, maybe not. Its a tricky question that has no easy answers.

But I do believe that parents should have the freedom to opt-out their children from Drag Queen storytimes, and that nobody should be forced into participating. Choosing not to participate brings no harm and is not dangerous to anyone.

I also like to be able to have my kids opt out of having a flamboyantly dressed woman read to them.

Also no woman wearing pants... my grandmother told me that a true lady doesn't wear trousers. And only true ladies should be reading to my kid... seeing as we get to opt out of things solely based on how they are dressed.

[MegaErtz]

Originally Posted by Locke

Careful now.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by FunkMasterFlame

A persons race is an immutable characteristic that they have no control over. A man flamboyantly dressing up as a woman is not.

And yet Sexual Orientation has been upheld to be on the same level of discrimination as Race and is protected under the same section in the Charter.

A lot of people believe that Drag Queens are a sexualized fetish and should not be promoted towards their children.

And a lot of people believe all black culture is gangs and drugs. A lot of people believe the Earth is flat. A lot of people believe the real queen of Canada lives in an RV. Beliefs aren't truths.

Parents have had the option of opting-out their children from sex education classes for a long time, that was the basis that the TDSB made their decision on.

As a 90s kid I often remember certain classmates having to leave class when sex-ed topics came up. Should they not have been allowed to opt-out of sexual teachings that their parents disagreed with? Were they bigoted for having done so back then? Are they bigoted now for not wanting, what they believe to be a sexual activity, of having a Drag Queen to read to their child?

Maybe, maybe not. Its a tricky question that has no easy answers.

It is an actual easy answer. Are the presenters giving Sexual Education lectures? Are they discussing Sexual topics? The answer is no, they are not, they are reading books. There is nothing overtly sexual going on here which reaches the level of students opting out of specific education regarding their sexual lives.

But I do believe that parents should have the freedom to opt-out their children from Drag Queen storytimes, and that nobody should be forced into participating. Choosing not to participate brings no harm and is not dangerous to anyone.

Actually opting out does bring harm and is dangerous. It is teaching our children that it is ok to discriminate. It is ok to exclude others who look different or who have a different belief system. It is teaching them how to be bigoted towards others. It was actually laid out pretty nicely in the article that you shared. Hell you even quoted the part of the article that said it

“(The storytime opt-out policy) panders to the dangerous and wrong-headed belief that a drag queen reading a story hurts children,” Ain wrote in his June 15 letter. “It is dangerous as it ‘others’ 2SLGBTQ+ people, including the storyteller, and almost certainly some of the students and staff.”

[GirlySports]

If Muslims are opting out based on religious freedoms, now you have a conflict.

Be respectful of these parents' sincerely held religious beliefs while appealing to the reality that as Muslims we are a marginalized community and need to stand with others in need against the real bigots.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

If Muslims are opting out based on religious freedoms, now you have a conflict.

Be respectful of these parents' sincerely held religious beliefs while appealing to the reality that as Muslims we are a marginalized community and need to stand with others in need against the real bigots.

But who defines bigotry? How can you arbitrarily split the concept of bigotry based on the beliefs of the individual who is then levying the potential bigotry?


That doesn't make sense.

I think there is a valid argument here about parents controlling what their children are exposed to, but I don't think you can lean on the religious nature of the parents to follow it through when it clearly excludes a protected class of individual.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

If Muslims are opting out based on religious freedoms, now you have a conflict.

Be respectful of these parents' sincerely held religious beliefs while appealing to the reality that as Muslims we are a marginalized community and need to stand with others in need against the real bigots.

What is a "real bigot"? Why is someone who excludes a Muslim a real bigot and someone who excludes a Drag queen not a real bigot?

Marginalizing others is being a bigot, and hiding behind religion doesn't change that. Many Muslims believe that girls shouldn't be educated at all, let alone teach. Should we allow students to opt out of classes taught by a female?

Would you not be upset if we had a story time with women wearing traditional Muslim clothes (say a burka) and students were told they didn't have to listen or accept them because of the way they are dressed?

"I'm Christian, I don't want my kids to hear stories from someone wearing that, its against my beliefs."

Would you consider that Christian Religious Freedom or Christian Bigotry?

[FunkMasterFlame]

Drag Queens are not a sexual orientation.

Not participating in Drag Queen Story Hours is not teaching someone to be pro-discrimination or pro-bigotry, its simply choosing not to participate; for any number of reasons, including age-appropriateness.

For example, when I was about 12 or 13 I had a friend whose favorite movie was Rocky Horror Picture Show. They wanted me to watch it with them, but when their parents asked my parents if it was okay my parents said no, as they did not believe it to be age-appropriate.

Their parents deemed that it was okay for their kids to watch it, and mine did not. There was no discrimination of accusations of bigotry or harming people in that decision, it was simply live and let live. As a kid I was upset about, but looking back I don't see it being a problem. I quickly forgot about it and watched it later in life and enjoyed the movie.

Not seeing it as a kid certainly didn't teach me its okay to be a bigot, I think thats a huuuge leap of logic that doesn't bear out.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by belsarius

What is a "real bigot"? Why is someone who excludes a Muslim a real bigot and someone who excludes a Drag queen not a real bigot?

Marginalizing others is being a bigot, and hiding behind religion doesn't change that. Many Muslims believe that girls shouldn't be educated at all, let alone teach. Should we allow students to opt out of classes taught by a female?

Would you not be upset if we had a story time with women wearing traditional Muslim clothes (say a burka) and students were told they didn't have to listen or accept them because of the way they are dressed?

"I'm Christian, I don't want my kids to hear stories from someone wearing that, its against my beliefs."

Would you consider that Christian Religious Freedom or Christian Bigotry?

No no, Muslims cannot be bigots because they are the victims of bigotry. This is the conflict.

It's clear today that in society and in government, white people and white religions who discriminate are the real bigots. Everyone else who discriminates, it's a little bit more muddy.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

No no, Muslims cannot be bigots because they are the victims of bigotry. This is the conflict.

It's clear today that in society and in government, white people and white religions who discriminate are the real bigots. Everyone else who discriminates, it's a little bit more muddy.

That's certainly a take....

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s absurd to think “reading with royalty” is an issue because it’s a bad synonym and “dress up story hour” is not an issue because it’s a good synonym. What are you even saying?



They are welcoming and non-threatening events. The goal is not simply to “read to kids” but to encourage acceptance and understanding so that kids know however they want to express themselves is OK. If boys want to wear nail polish, is it inappropriate to teach them that it’s OK to do that? That’d be a tough argument to make.



There are lots of other readings for that. Go to those.



Actually, it’s because most of them are at bars.

Drag events geared toward being child-friendly or all-ages are purposely not inappropriate for children or all ages.

I would encourage you to actually attend one of these readings and see for yourself (if you have kids, you might even realise it’s not just moms that take their kids to reading time, step up dad!). At the end of the day, showing children (who naturally have a far more fluid and open understanding of gender and gender expression than adults) that you can be whoever you want to be and express yourself however you want to express yourself is fun and healthy and a worthwhile cause.

Have you taken your kids to one of these book readings? How old were your kids when you did? Did you find it to be “age appropriate “?

I haven’t, but am genuinely curious.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

They are reading books. That's it.