Hockey Canada, CHL settle lawsuit over alleged sexual assault involving WJ players

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Yes. And this does not apply to “any player”. We billeted WHL players at that time and the kids we had were great. In fact most of the team was great, a few others were simply tolerated, one was an entitled nut job. 15 years is not that long ago. The hazing for these kids consisted of dressing the rookies up as girls and parading them through the mall.

It would be hard to put any group of 20, 17-20 year olds together and not get issues with behaviour, treatment of women and substance abuse. But to label them all as perverts is simply lazy and wrong. Like every year, literally 1000’s of teenage boys leave home is pursuit of higher opportunities in hockey, the incidents rates are in the 1-5% range.

I couldn't agree more with the last paragraph and the overly broad brush that people are using to label people.

But let's be honest (and I'm sure you realize this). You don't know what those kids were up to when you weren't around and you don't know to what extent other types of hazing occurred. Any parent of teenagers is well aware that a certain amount of trust (and naivete frankly) is part of the equation. And that "great" kids can make horrible decisions given the right set of circumstances.

I don't know what the incident rates are for junior hockey but placing groups of teenagers on a pedestal is conducive to creating an environment for trouble. IMO that incident rate is going to be worse than say a typical college setting where similarly aged kids have left home for the first time. And we know this kind of #### happens in college too.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Nike announced today that they are no longer a sponsor for Hockey Canada. It's not clear when they ended sponsorship, but by announcing it today, I have to wonder if some more news is coming out soon.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/arti...a-sponsorship/

I'd guess no. Simply put the controversy, combined with the minimal money to be made probably made the decision to walk away pretty easy.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Nike announced today that they are no longer a sponsor for Hockey Canada. It's not clear when they ended sponsorship, but by announcing it today, I have to wonder if some more news is coming out soon.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/arti...a-sponsorship/

Last year the Globe and Mail reported that a senior employee at Nike Canada was seen buying drinks for national junior hockey players just before the alleged sexual assault, according to unsealed court records

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nik...port-1.6909029

what that means in regards to the scandal, I don't know.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

It would be hard to put any group of 20, 17-20 year olds together and not get issues with behaviour, treatment of women and substance abuse. But to label them all as perverts is simply lazy and wrong. Like every year, literally 1000’s of teenage boys leave home is pursuit of higher opportunities in hockey, the incidents rates are in the 1-5% range.

If you accept that as OK, you are part of the problem, you just don't know it.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

If you accept that as OK, you are part of the problem, you just don't know it.

Nobody has accepted this as “okay”. The poster had basically labeled every junior hockey player as a perv and that is not the case.

[Goriders]

Wonder if they are ever going to get to the point where they release the names of those involved or if they are going to let the legal system do that if there are any actual charges that come out of the investigation.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

If you accept that as OK, you are part of the problem, you just don't know it.

Wtf is this?

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Do expand.

Are you aware of the hazing that takes place with junior hockey teams, especially 15+ years ago?

And do you think the hazing was optional, or do you think that 100% of players willingly or unwillingly partook in it?

I don't need to expand.

You know what you said was idiotic. You are painting with a big brush. You roll your eyes at ALL young players because you knew how disgusting and perverted they were? Brutal take.

And then you double down on it?

There is no way that you truly believe what you said. I can't see how you could defend it. Just walk it back a bit.

We are all grossed out by what is happening at the early levels of this sport. But there is a vast majority of these young men that are good people. We need to fix the culture. Not throw the entirety under the bus.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Yes. And this does not apply to “any player”. We billeted WHL players at that time and the kids we had were great. In fact most of the team was great, a few others were simply tolerated, one was an entitled nut job. 15 years is not that long ago. The hazing for these kids consisted of dressing the rookies up as girls and parading them through the mall.

It would be hard to put any group of 20, 17-20 year olds together and not get issues with behaviour, treatment of women and substance abuse. But to label them all as perverts is simply lazy and wrong. Like every year, literally 1000’s of teenage boys leave home is pursuit of higher opportunities in hockey, the incidents rates are in the 1-5% range.

I've also commented on this several times over the years, I played junior hockey around that time as well and in the WHL and AJHL the worst I ever had on any of my teams was stuff like making rookies carry equipment and get the worst seats on the bus. I don't say that to minimalize the issues here, because the stories you hear and especially the stuff in the news absolutely isn't and wasn't okay.

Labelling the whole hockey community is stupid

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I've also commented on this several times over the years, I played junior hockey around that time as well and in the WHL and AJHL the worst I ever had on any of my teams was stuff like making rookies carry equipment and get the worst seats on the bus. I don't say that to minimalize the issues here, because the stories you hear and especially the stuff in the news absolutely isn't and wasn't okay.

Labelling the whole hockey community is stupid

That's really hard to believe, maybe it was the era you were in (not sure when that was). I didn't play hockey, and I know of several stories just from Fort McMurray alone. They weren't secrets, and if they happened today those players wouldn't have moved on to other leagues.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

That's really hard to believe, maybe it was the era you were in (not sure when that was). I didn't play hockey, and I know of several stories just from Fort McMurray alone. They weren't secrets, and if they happened today those players wouldn't have moved on to other leagues.

Why is it hard to believe that different teams and different organizations had different approaches/experiences?

Nobody is saying that the horrible stories didn't happen but claiming that they happened with every single team is silly. I know people hate junior players and want to believe they are all awful people, but thinking that the worst stories are the norm is insane.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Why is it hard to believe that different teams and different organizations had different approaches/experiences?

Nobody is saying that the horrible stories didn't happen but claiming that they happened with every single team is silly. I know people hate junior players and want to believe they are all awful people, but thinking that the worst stories are the norm is insane.

My experience during my teen years is just that though. The junior team in Fort McMurray had things happen that everyone knew about., It was no different in other towns.

Of course it's not every player or organization. My time was in the mid 90's to early 2000's. I have no doubt it's different today, but if there are incidents that everyone knows about year after year in these towns, even if it is just one player it reflects on the culture. If you grew up around that, and saw that, then of course you're going have a certain perspective.

It may be different now, but it was certainly an ugly culture in the late 90s, early 2000s.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

My experience during my teen years is just that though. The junior team in Fort McMurray had things happen that everyone knew about., It was no different in other towns.

Of course it's not every player or organization. My time was in the mid 90's to early 2000's. I have no doubt it's different today, but if there are incidents that everyone knows about year after year in these towns, even if it is just one player it reflects on the culture.

It may be different now, but it was certainly an ugly culture in the late 90s, early 2000s.

But nobody is denying that could be true. Fort Mac could have had a bad atmosphere around the team. I expect, especially with teams around the same era, likely are going to continue the bad practices of teams before them.

But to say that because your experience in Fort mac was a. so that every other junior team must be the same makes no sense. Especially when a guy said he was involved in some of those teams.

We have heard from people that not every team was a horrible toxic hazing environment, that doesn't mean that there weren't toxic environments that existed.

[GioforPM]

I know that when the James scandal broke out, lots of guys I know talked about hazing and how it was pretty endemic, and mostly "dick related".

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Spurs

But nobody is denying that could be true. Fort Mac could have had a bad atmosphere around the team. I expect, especially with teams around the same era, likely are going to continue the bad practices of teams before them.

But to say that because your experience in Fort mac was a. so that every other junior team must be the same makes no sense. Especially when a guy said he was involved in some of those teams.

We have heard from people that not every team was a horrible toxic hazing environment, that doesn't mean that there weren't toxic environments that existed.

I knew of the same kind of garbage from other cities/towns in Alberta. I think back then it was pretty typical. These days I have no idea, obviously my perspective is influenced by what I knew about when I was around the same age as those players.


It's also a sign of the times. Things that would be ignored back then certainly wouldn't be ignored today. We're talking about an era with girls gone wild, and Jerry Springer uncensored being advertised constantly on tv.

[PepsiFree]

Why are we even bothering to pretend hazing and other toxic-masculinity-fueled stupidity wasn’t a widespread issue?

How many stories need to be told to accept reality, here? And at what point do we recognize that pretending every incident was just an isolated incident is absurd?

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Why are we even bothering to pretend hazing and other toxic-masculinity-fueled stupidity wasn’t a widespread issue?

How many stories need to be told to accept reality, here? And at what point do we recognize that pretending every incident was just an isolated incident is absurd?

There's also looking back and realizing how bad it was in retrospect as well. There were incidents that should have led to charges, no question, clearly wrong. There were also incidents that many people wouldn't have thought twice about back then, but looking back on it 20 years later are clearly very toxic.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Why are we even bothering to pretend hazing and other toxic-masculinity-fueled stupidity wasn’t a widespread issue?

How many stories need to be told to accept reality, here? And at what point do we recognize that pretending every incident was just an isolated incident is absurd?

We're not doing that though, we're just replying to the comment that "if you came across any junior hockey player in Canada 15+ years ago you almost just rolled your eyes at how disgusting and perverted you knew they were"

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Why are we even bothering to pretend hazing and other toxic-masculinity-fueled stupidity wasn’t a widespread issue?

How many stories need to be told to accept reality, here? And at what point do we recognize that pretending every incident was just an isolated incident is absurd?

Who is pretending that it wasn't a widespread issue?

Saying every team and every player didn't participate isn't denying that it isn't a widespread issue.

[PeteMoss]

Hazing is stupid and shouldn't happen but there is also a difference between doing a rookie sing a song in front of the team or carrying someone's hockey equipment and getting a hockey stick shoved up somewhere you don't want it to go.