[Rumour] Chris Johnston: Lindholm is interested in staying

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Hackey

The Flames are about 50% in making the playoffs in the last decade and the Caps were like 90% before winning the Cup. The Caps won their division like 80% of the time. The Flames are probably like 30%. Caps won the Presidents Trophy the 2 years before the Cup. We also don't have the leagues greatest goal scorer ever. We don't have a number 1 dman like Carlson. Lindholm is no Kuznetsov in his prime. Maybe he's a Backstrom. I think we're squinting pretty hard to see these teams as comparable.

No, no one is squinting.

The point is that ANY team, after playoff success, looks elite. WAS was viewed as a flawed team that couldn't get it done in the playoffs, until they did. If the Flames make a run to the finals, people will look at them differently too.

[howard_the_duck]

Sure, but our top two contributors to those division winning teams are now playing elsewhere.

Imagine removing Ovi and Carlson, Stone and Eichel, etc from those teams. It’s a different makeup altogether. Hard to use our recent success in the regular season as any kind of barometer. We simply don’t know what this team is capable of. We just know an awful lot of them don’t appear to want to come back.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

People underestimate how much luck and timing plays a role into winning a Stanley Cup and going on a run.

Sure some teams are powerhouses...Tampa Bay being the one example.

But honestly other recent champions like Washington, St.Louis, Vegas and to a lesser extend Colorado had a lot go right to be able to win their cups.

This is why it's better to have several good stabs at the Cup, rather than just one or two very very good stab at the cup.

The chance of winning the cup is higher if there are a lot of good chances in your long competitive window.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Sure, but our top two contributors to those division winning teams are now playing elsewhere.

Imagine removing Ovi and Carlson, Stone and Eichel, etc from those teams. It’s a different makeup altogether. Hard to use our recent success in the regular season as any kind of barometer. We simply don’t know what this team is capable of. We just know an awful lot of them don’t appear to want to come back.

Eichel wasn’t involved in any Vegas success prior to this season, and both Stone and Eichel weren’t involved in their last trip to the finals.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Eichel wasn’t involved in any Vegas success prior to this season, and both Stone and Eichel weren’t involved in their last trip to the finals.

Stone’s been part of their continued success. Eichel is new but is a superior replacement to their previous core.

I don’t think we could argue the same improvements to the Flames personnel in losing Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

[Enoch Root]

The hilarious thing about these types of comments about Gaudreau and Tkachuk is that all the same fans said the Flames had no elite talent, and weren't good enough, when Gaudreau and Tkachuk were here. Now they are these icons that our current players, like Huberdeau, could never possibly live up to

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No, no one is squinting.

The point is that ANY team, after playoff success, looks elite. WAS was viewed as a flawed team that couldn't get it done in the playoffs, until they did. If the Flames make a run to the finals, people will look at them differently too.

This is probably true. The Flames would not be in the category of teams that have made the playoffs 6 out of the last 6 years or 5 of the last 6 years so that tiering would be

Boston
Toronto
Tampa
Carolina
Colorado
Wild
Winnipeg
Vegas
Washington
Pittsburgh
Nashville

So once you get through that tier of 11 teams that consistently make the playoffs and always give themselves a chance, the Flames are probably somewhere in the next tier of teams that have made the playoffs either 4 or 3 times in the last 6 years.

Florida - 4 times
Dallas - 4 times
Oilers - 4 times
St. Louis - 4 times

After that there are four teams (Islanders, Kings, Calgary and the Flyers) that could catch lightning who have made the playoffs 3 times in the last 6 years. So there are only about 11-15 teams that one can reasonably expect have a better chance than the Flames based on frequency of playoff appearances.

[howard_the_duck]

Gaudreau and Tkachuk aren't perfect players, but they were our best players.

[midniteowl]

There is this old Chinese saying: 隔籬飯香, which means neighbor's dinner smell more delicious. When Gaudreau and Tkachuk were with us, they were our dinner, so they were meh. Once they leave and became our neighbor's dinner, they are the best!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Stone’s been part of their continued success. Eichel is new but is a superior replacement to their previous core.

I don’t think we could argue the same improvements to the Flames personnel in losing Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

It’s been one season, and one with some fairly large issues beyond swapping out the top line.

Maybe give it another year? Vegas missed the playoffs the first season after they acquired “superior replacement” Jack Eichel. Certainly wasn’t for lack of trying on Eichel or Stone’s part, but still, things don’t always work out right off the bat. Give it another year.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No, no one is squinting.

The point is that ANY team, after playoff success, looks elite. WAS was viewed as a flawed team that couldn't get it done in the playoffs, until they did. If the Flames make a run to the finals, people will look at them differently too.

But they still had consistent regular season success so they we're clearly an elite team. You don't win back to back Presidents Trohphies being an average team. Back to back President Trophies then winning the Cup the following year isn't some massive fluke. There is clearly a trend there. Missing the playoffs 50% of the time in the last decade is also likely an indicator of what the Flames are.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The hilarious thing about these types of comments about Gaudreau and Tkachuk is that all the same fans said the Flames had no elite talent, and weren't good enough, when Gaudreau and Tkachuk were here. Now they are these icons that our current players, like Huberdeau, could never possibly live up to

It can easily be both . They weren’t good enough to lead the team to the cup as your 2 best players AND their replacements are worst

Isn’t that actually the point most people are making ? If we couldn’t win with JG and MT in their prime how the heck will we win with post apex guys who are worse ?

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s been one season, and one with some fairly large issues beyond swapping out the top line.

Maybe give it another year? Vegas missed the playoffs the first season after they acquired “superior replacement” Jack Eichel. Certainly wasn’t for lack of trying on Eichel or Stone’s part, but still, things don’t always work out right off the bat. Give it another year.

Sample size is fair. If it weren't for the contract statuses, I'd say waiting another year makes sense.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

This is probably true. The Flames would not be in the category of teams that have made the playoffs 6 out of the last 6 years or 5 of the last 6 years so that tiering would be

Boston
Toronto
Tampa
Carolina
Colorado
Wild
Winnipeg
Vegas
Washington
Pittsburgh
Nashville

So once you get through that tier of 11 teams that consistently make the playoffs and always give themselves a chance, the Flames are probably somewhere in the next tier of teams that have made the playoffs either 4 or 3 times in the last 6 years.

Florida - 4 times
Dallas - 4 times
Oilers - 4 times
St. Louis - 4 times

After that there are four teams (Islanders, Kings, Calgary and the Flyers) that could catch lightning who have made the playoffs 3 times in the last 6 years. So there are only about 11-15 teams that one can reasonably expect have a better chance than the Flames based on frequency of playoff appearances.

If you're claiming that the Wild, the Jets and the Preds are a tier above the Flames over the last 5 years or so, you're trying too hard. And the Leafs have won one playoff series over that time.

Anyway, whatever.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

If you're claiming that the Wild, the Jets and the Preds are a tier above the Flames over the last 5 years or so, you're trying too hard. And the Leafs have won one playoff series over that time.

Anyway, whatever.

I was just saying if any of those 11-15 teams went on a run it would be pretty easy to say “ya in hindsight that is why it is not surprising that they went on that run”. It is not like the Flames are a team who has not been in the playoffs over the past 3 years.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

It can easily be both . They weren’t good enough to lead the team to the cup as your 2 best players AND their replacements are worst

Isn’t that actually the point most people are making ? If we couldn’t win with JG and MT in their prime how the heck will we win with post apex guys who are worse ?

If a team was only two players this logic would make sense
I also don't think Gaudreau is better than Huberdeau

IF they can turn Hanifin into a very good top six player and they get goaltending they will be as good or better than any roster when Gaudreau was here.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I was just saying if any of those 11-15 teams went on a run it would be pretty easy to say “ya in hindsight that is why it is not surprising that they went on that run”. It is not like the Flames are a team who has not been in the playoffs over the past 3 years.

Ah, misread your post. Agreed.

[Jacks]

Maybe give it another year? Vegas missed the playoffs the first season after they acquired “superior replacement” Jack Eichel.

@Pepsi
Why would you put "superior replacement" in quotes?
Eichel is clearly the best centre that Vegas has ever had in their short history.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Jacks

@Pepsi
Why would you put "superior replacement" in quotes?
Eichel is clearly the best centre that Vegas has ever had in their short history.

Because I was quoting someone.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Because I was quoting someone.

Right but you put those words in quotes as if to make it sound like it's questionable that he is a superior replacement. Anyway, whatever.