Recommend (or don't) a movie thread v2

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Dunning-Kruger, man. The less in depth people are familiar with a subject (or in this case, a craft), the more confident they'll act about the limited knowledge they do possess.

As a person learns more about the inner workings of that subject though, the more they generally are humbled about how much deeper it goes and the less they'll believe they possess real expertise, because there's so much more to it than they'd originally anticipated with just a surface-deep understanding.

It's like the Star Wars nerd clans who spend hours weekly demonizing Kathleen Kennedy for ruining the franchise. Many of them fabricate their own scripts and plots and make fan edits of the films to their liking.

They're a perfect example though, because there's such a vast contingency that in recent years they've accumulated the resources to create their own productions for their supposed 'superior' visions set within the universe.

But have you watched these? Even with literally thousands of dollars poured into them, script-wise it's like watching adults playing action figures. The presentation is hardly coherent and often completely lacks context or any kind of story structure that is prevalent in any kind of watchable production. And while it can be pretty to look at because some of these guys do have VFX skills, the execution is still amateurish overall.

The ones where they succeeded and were lauded for their work by a wider audience were very select clips such as the reimagined Obi Wan/Vader fight from A New Hope. It worked because it was strictly visual effects.

But any time you get these guys to come up with a story of their own, it blows chunks.

As you say, maybe let's give the guys with well over 10,000 hours logged doing this thing the kind of respect they deserve. We can critique it, sure. But it's the people that act like they're George Lucas' spiritual successor before stepping foot into a studio even once that need to get off that high steed and remember people do this for a living, while for them its a hobby.

[trackercowe]

Raiders is my favorite movie of all-time (tied with Lawrence of Arabia), and sorry I did not enjoy Dial of Destiny. It's a slight improvement over Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, but still I found it a rather mediocre experience overall. It was over long for one thing, and the ending was rather abrupt. The first 30 minutes had the spirit of the 80s movies, but it was hard accepting the voice of "old Indy" embodying that of his younger self.

Now it did look like an Indiana Jones, more so than Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, but I felt it was missing that Spielberg finishing touch. Another issue I had was the Teddy character, I don't see why he was needed in the movie, as he served really no purpose (other than a way to get Jones and company in the line of fire).

If anything they could have done something with Short-Round, and created a compelling beginning to end narrative. The franchise starts (technically) with Temple of Doom, and ends with their final adventure together.

Those are my thoughts, take them for what they're worth. I have watched the trilogy hundreds of times... I will probably stick to watching the three alone. To me the movies end with Indiana riding off into the sunset with his father, Sallah, and Marcus Brody.

Oh and I am not an incel living his his parents basement... just because I didn't like the movie and agree with the critics doesn't make me one.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Dunning-Kruger, man.

Whatever your perspective, Dunning-Kruger doesn't apply to subjective things like art.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

Raiders is my favorite movie of all-time (tied with Lawrence of Arabia), and sorry I did not enjoy Dial of Destiny. It's a slight improvement over Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, but still I found it a rather mediocre experience overall. It was over long for one thing, and the ending was rather abrupt. The first 30 minutes had the spirit of the 80s movies, but it was hard accepting the voice of "old Indy" embodying that of his younger self.

Now it did look like an Indiana Jones, more so than Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, but I felt it was missing that Spielberg finishing touch. Another issue I had was the Teddy character, I don't see why he was needed in the movie, as he served really no purpose (other than a way to get Jones and company in the line of fire).

If anything they could have done something with Short-Round, and created a compelling beginning to end narrative. The franchise starts (technically) with Temple of Doom, and ends with their final adventure together.

Those are my thoughts, take them for what they're worth. I have watched the trilogy hundreds of times... I will probably stick to watching the three alone. To me the movies end with Indiana riding off into the sunset with his father, Sallah, and Marcus Brody.

Oh and I am not an incel living his his parents basement... just because I didn't like the movie and agree with the critics doesn't make me one.

This is a strange leap in logic from the original discussion and comes off reactive for what seems like no reason lol.

Pretty sure that was being directed at the critics who were cutting down the movie because the female lead was written as a capable comrade rather than a damsel in distress and contained a rather innocuous line about being self-reliant.

Not for disliking a movie.

But thanks for doggedly defending your opinion as if you weren't entitled to it to begin with. FYI, you are entitled to one and no one said you weren't.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Whatever your perspective, Dunning-Kruger doesn't apply to subjective things like art.

Thanks, Sheldon.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Thanks, Sheldon.

You're welcome, djsflames.

[Locke]

Looks like 'Dial of Destiny' might have finally done her in.

After Numerous Flops Under Her Leadership, LucasFilm Has Reportedly Fired Its Controversial President.

Rumors have been swirling around the internet suggesting that Lucasfilm fired Kathleen Kennedy, the president of LucasFilms. As a prominent figure in the film industry, Kennedy’s leadership has shaped the direction of several beloved film franchises, resulting in both critical acclaim and disappointment from fans. It’s no secret that many Star Wars supporters have wanted her gone for a while, and after LucasFilm’s latest Indiana Jones flopped, rumors are coming out that Kennedy might indeed be getting axed.

The truth is that none of these rumors have a ton of validity. Back in 2021, Kennedy’s contract was renewed for an additional three years, showing that LucasFilm still saw her in a good light. However, it is strange that no official source has been able to shut down these rumors yet.

For now, the rumor that LucasFilm President Kathleen Kennedy has been fired is just that- a rumor.

https://www.disneydining.com/after-n...president-em1/

But according to a new development, Kennedy may have been locked out of her business email and given two weeks paid leave so that the higher-ups at Disney could figure out how to tackle Lucasfilm’s declining success. Rumors suggest that Disney is breaking its infamous “no-interference” rule, as several insiders have reportedly seen Disney execs storming the Lucasfilm office amid whispers of Kennedy’s firing.

However, all this fuss could easily be chalked up to routine going-ons. Kennedy could also be taking time off with her family, with other execs filling in during her absence. It seems like most of these rumors have little to no credibility to them, and currently, it appears that Kennedy is still working at Lucasfilm. The company hasn’t announced that she has been “fired” from her position, and until then, it seems like this is just unsupported internet gossip.

https://insidethemagic.net/2023/07/s...ial-exec-aml1/

So its just rumours at the moment, but its long past due to hand the reins of this IP to some new blood.

I dont think its a secret that she's been skating on some thin ice for a long time now.

I dont know how much of that criticism is valid seeing as how, despite the lackluster film content she's overseen, the argument could still be made that under her stewardship Star Wars and Lucasfilm has still generated an insane pile of money on their offerings.

This could just be some more smoke, but that being said, it seems that there are more capable people waiting in the wings to take over the IP and really move it forward.

Who would be sad if Disney/Lucasfilm decided to move on and hand the Keys to the Kingdom to Favreau and Filoni?

[Erick Estrada]

The movies haven't met expectations so somebody had to pay the price. The Dial of Destiny wasn't a bad film but it's not remotely close to being a great film as to me it's as forgettable as say the Uncharted movie. I just think that the Star Wars and Indiana Jones magic is gone.

[getbak]

No credible source is reporting her firing.

Even the links Locke posted are just saying it's a rumour... and it's been a rumour many times before. Until someone like The Hollywood Reporter or Deadline reports it, chalk it up to wishful thinking from fanboys who have no idea what she actually does.


I suspect if she does get pushed out, it will be announced as a retirement (she is 70) and a handover to someone new when her current contract expires next year. I doubt her replacement will be either Filoni or Favreau. I don't know if either of them would want it. It will likely be someone from the business side of Disney.

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I just think that the Star Wars and Indiana Jones magic is gone.

Nah, Star Wars is doing just fine. The Mandalorian is a massive worldwide hit, Obi-Wan was pretty damn solid, and the Andor series is arguably the best thing SW has done since Empire Strikes Back.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The movies haven't met expectations so somebody had to pay the price. The Dial of Destiny wasn't a bad film but it's not remotely close to being a great film as to me it's as forgettable as say the Uncharted movie. I just think that the Star Wars and Indiana Jones magic is gone.

Someone hasn't watched Andor.

####ing great TV and it doesn't lean on fan service one bit.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The movies haven't met expectations so somebody had to pay the price. The Dial of Destiny wasn't a bad film but it's not remotely close to being a great film as to me it's as forgettable as say the Uncharted movie. I just think that the Star Wars and Indiana Jones magic is gone.

Indy 5 felt like there was several rejected scripts crammed into one, if I had to guess. James Mangold probably deserves some sort of knighthood for being able to string all of that into one comprehensible story.

I think the magic is gone because you have a bajillion different people weighing into what should be the story, plot and character dev. If you read about the creation of Indy/Raiders there was a lot of work put in by a small team of GOAT creators with the primary purpose of making something creatively great.

[Coach]

Jon Favreau to head Lucasfilm e5

[Locke]

Originally Posted by getbak

No credible source is reporting her firing.

Even the links Locke posted are just saying it's a rumour... and it's been a rumour many times before. Until someone like The Hollywood Reporter or Deadline reports it, chalk it up to wishful thinking from fanboys who have no idea what she actually does.


I suspect if she does get pushed out, it will be announced as a retirement (she is 70) and a handover to someone new when her current contract expires next year. I doubt her replacement will be either Filoni or Favreau. I don't know if either of them would want it. It will likely be someone from the business side of Disney.

Yeah, and I even acknowledged that they were rumours and acknowledged that the rumours have been going around for a long time.

She should have been canned eons ago.

I even acknowledged that even though the films she helmed were largely crap (I still loved Rogue One) they still made a lot of money, which is largely what her job is, so the criteria to which she's being held to is nebulous at best.

But as you said, she's 70, these reins should have been handed over a looooooong time ago in a Galaxy very, very close to this one, one might even surmise the same one...

There were even rumours a few months ago that she was given an ultimatum that if she didnt have a Star Wars film in theaters for Christmas 2024 she was getting canned.

Perhaps the lackluster box office from another one of her properties in Indiana Jones may hasten her demise? Who knows? Its all conjecture at this point. But I'd have put her out to pasture a long time ago.

The way I look at it is that I dont know how to judge Kennedy. You hear rumours that Favreau was sick of her meddling in, arguably Lucasfilm's top property in 'The Mandalorian' and threatened to quit, but I dont know how much of that is true. There are other properties that are doing well.

Indy 5 probably could have been better? Their Box Office there is probably disappointing, but again I dont know what their criteria for her is.

Her Star Wars trilogy was heavily flawed from a story and narrative perspective but still made HUGE bank, which I imagine is among her top priorities.

I dont think she has any involvement in the grand spanking flop, floperoo that is the Star Wars cruise/hotel travesty, but I dont know that for certain either.

Does she know where Jimmy Hoffa is buried? So she can keep the wheels turning during a strike? I dont know.

But either way, I dont feel I'm alone in thinking its time to cut her loose and try something new, especially considering the talent and resources at their disposal.

But yes, at the moment these are unsubstantiated rumours, but there has been a lot of smoke following her around the last little while.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Someone hasn't watched Andor.

####ing great TV and it doesn't lean on fan service one bit.

Oh I watched it. It's okay. A little overrated but it's much better than Boba Fett and Obi Wan. I was more focused on the movies with my quote which haven't been very good.

[Matata]

Indy 5's box office run will probably cap out before it hits $300M globally, so it stands to lose hundreds of millions. This comes at a time where they really needed a big win to win back fans (who are becoming more jaded by the moment) and make enough money to offset all their other projects that have lost or made little money.

If this doesn't get her canned, then she must some nuclear-grade blackmail material. That would make for a poetic ending to her career: she had to humour the disgusting, predatory behaviour of the film-makers and studios heads when she didn't have the power to do anything about it. Now she's in charge, and she's going to destroy their legacy and subvert their brands to be female-led vehicles for modern social issues, where she has only managed to be half-way successful.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

rewatched A.I. (2001) last night for the first time since it came out. I didn't really 'get it' when I saw it at 15 but wow was watching it last night a really cool experience. It's still a little meditative at times that might now work for everyone, but I was really into it.

Also watching it in a post The Fabelmans (2022) world is fascinating.


EDIT: talking about the perceived attractiveness of anyone in a modern blockbuster is funny to me because they're all largely sexless action figures.

It's been many years since I watched it, but I remember thinking they should have ended it

Spoiler!

with David underwater at the Blue Fairy

Dark, but fitting. Wasn't a fan of that last part.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Personally I haven't taken much issue with the characters/casting under KK outside of Rey who I think was horribly written and it rightly backfired on them when they probably expected Rey merch to fly off the shelves.

Too bad she was just a boring, walking cheat code throughout that trilogy. They couldn't even do a basic hero's journey tale correctly.

I even came around on Reva and embraced her in Obi Wan, even though she was mostly irrelevant to that story and could've been left on the shelf and it would've hardly changed anything about that series.

Whether its happened or not KK should be shown the door, not for her attempts to create strong female characters, but because the franchise simply hasn't thrived under her, and cause she allegedly has been at odds with Favreau on creative decisions. Those guys have shown well enough that they know what they're doing that KK should be more laissez faire and let the boys play with their characters and stories how they want to.

It's her job to do what's best for the respective series, and that includes knowing when it's best not to meddle and let your talent have the creative domain it needs.

[Erick Estrada]

IMO it's always going to be diminishing returns with these franchises as they are old and there's not a lot that can be done that hasn't been done in previous movies. Same with Indiana Jones, Terminator, Aliens, or any of the shows that were at one time a pinnacle for action and special effects. How many variations of car chases, temples, tombs, Nazis can remain fresh and exciting? The T-1000 was amazing effects in it's day with T2 but now in a new movie it's yawn inducing. When I watch all these newer films I feel I have seen it all before and special effects are no longer an attraction because all movies like this now use CGA. It's easy to crap on the people involved in these movies and truth be told there's probably way too many cooks in the kitchen compared to the original movies (I can just imagine how many largely attended board meetings involved in a Star Wars movies) but I imagine it's really hard to come up with new material in these movie universes that pays homage to the originals that is fresh and new. It's probably why Rogue One is probably the best Star Wars movie of late because it's not really associated with the old characters and storylines and stands on its own.

[nik-]

It's pretty crazy that someone with so many massive movies under her belt, it many roles, could do so poorly in the big chair. Like there's having a movie flop, and then there's not mapping out a storyline for your franchise trilogy, at all. Those are pretty different scales