There will never be nuclear war because there's no profit in it, the people who actually make these decisions only care about money and power. Modern Warfare, especially if the US is involved, revolves around money: laundering it, grifting the taxpayer, funneling money into black operations, taking huge banker loans and filling the pockets of war-profiteers. Nuclear war resets everything back to zero, which is bad business.
It's easy to stoke the flames of nationalism or ultranationalism to the point of irrationality.
Look at Germans in 1945 - there were widespread suicides at the end of the war as many would rather die than live in a world where national socialism would cease to exist.
The American warhawks in 1962 were willing to kill hundreds of millions of both us and them because of the Cuba thing, thank god cooler heads prevailed.
Never say never - especially in a ####ed up place like Ruskiland.
Also, nobody should take for granted that an American response would be measured rather than escalatory. Past leaks of American nuclear plans showed a willingness to kill off a substantial percent of the world's population in response to a single believed launch by Russia, even if not an attack on American soil. Going nuclear is toying with extinction.
True and not true.
There are different types of strikes that are available.
Counterforce, decapitation, targeting major military bases, a EMP strike.
I would have my doubts in the current environment that any strike would be proceeded by a fairly drawn out escalation right to missiles fueled and doors open.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Thousands of pages of escalation scenarios and measures are detailed in planning documents. They’ve been wargamed hundreds of times, and in the great majority of scenarios once the U.S. and USSR are engaged in open conventional combat, the measure and counter-measures escalate to full nuclear launch. When delaying a reaction by even 15 minutes might mean the destruction of your strike forces on the ground, the incentive to strike first and massively becomes irresistible.
For a chilling history of the existential risks inherent in nuclear preparedness, read Command and Control by Eric Schlosser.
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Thousands of pages of escalation scenarios and measures are detailed in planning documents. They’ve been wargamed hundreds of times, and in the great majority of scenarios once the U.S. and USSR are engaged in open conventional combat, the measure and counter-measures escalate to full nuclear launch. When delaying a reaction by even 15 minutes might mean the destruction of your strike forces on the ground, the incentive to strike first and massively becomes irresistible.
For a chilling history of the existential risks inherent in nuclear preparedness, read Command and Control by Eric Schlosser.
By the way, great book.
Russian tactics inevitably call for the use of battlefield nuclear weapons or chemical weapons to deal with reversals, or an unwinnable defense scenario. Soviet Generals used to be encouraged to think creatively in terms of the use of chemical and nuclear weapons in their plans because they believed that as long as they used battlefield weapons, Nato wouldn't esclate to a strategic nuclear war (City busting)
Americans have several scenarios where they will release tactical nukes to a battle field commander, but politically its harder to get that release.
Russian senior Military advisors such as the defense ministery can actually launch with the head of the government being in the room. Its unlikely to happen but it can.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
I think the biggest thing stopping Russia from using nuclear weapons is their reliance on China for strategic support. Say what you want about about China, but I do believe they are serious about the no first strike policy and I don't think they would look the other way if Russia did something like that.
Really? Hmm. I think the biggest thing stopping Russia from using nuclear weapons is the mutually assured destruction.
a nuke or blowing up a power station might not be a MAD situation but it is definetly a MAF situation, mutually assured fallout, there isnt anyway the Russians can use nukes in the Ukraine that doesnt end up with huge chunks of Russia having to be evacuated and becoming unusable for farming for centuries, I dont see Russia ever doing this unless they felt their very existence was at risk
Canada commits to increase Canada's presence in Latvia to about 2200 by 2026. I have no idea how they're going to do this.
Crrently Canada has a total of 3 badly under strength brigades. So they're basically going to have a understrength brigade in Latvia. So to support that, there will have to be a brigade in Canada doing workups to deply, and a brigade that's on normal activity including training, leave, rearming. So is he saying that the majority of Canada's combat troops are going to be doing work for Latvia?
Part of the Brigade is the armored component which includes tanks. suppossedly Canada would commit 14 tanks to Latvia. But I doubt that we have that many tanks that are able to be deployed.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
The White House claimed a failure rate of not more than something like 2% on these, but the Pentagon's own documents apparently say it's up to 14%.
Both Russia and Ukraine have already been using cluster bombs in Ukraine too, with failure rates supposedly upwards of 30%.
Between all the mines and these cluster munitions, it's going to be an incredible mess of unexploded bombs whenever this war actually ends, which will likely mean the deaths and injuries to civilians continue on for years after the war.
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"If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?"
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The White House claimed a failure rate of not more than something like 2% on these, but the Pentagon's own documents apparently say it's up to 14%.
Both Russia and Ukraine have already been using cluster bombs in Ukraine too, with failure rates supposedly upwards of 30%.
Between all the mines and these cluster munitions, it's going to be an incredible mess of unexploded bombs whenever this war actually ends, which will likely mean the deaths and injuries to civilians continue on for years after the war.
Thanks Putin/Russia. Genius move to start this war.
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The White House claimed a failure rate of not more than something like 2% on these, but the Pentagon's own documents apparently say it's up to 14%.
Both Russia and Ukraine have already been using cluster bombs in Ukraine too, with failure rates supposedly upwards of 30%.
Between all the mines and these cluster munitions, it's going to be an incredible mess of unexploded bombs whenever this war actually ends, which will likely mean the deaths and injuries to civilians continue on for years after the war.
Well, one would be foolish to believe anything the White House claims, whether they are stating a "fact" (such as your cluster bomb failure rate example) or their moral stance on something (Jen Psaki called the usage of cluster bombs as a war crime only a few years ago).
The risk from these things to normal Ukrainian citizens who are just like us, after the war is done with is completely unacceptable.
Well, one would be foolish to believe anything the White House claims, whether they are stating a "fact" (such as your cluster bomb failure rate example) or their moral stance on something (Jen Psaki called the usage of cluster bombs as a war crime only a few years ago).
The risk from these things to normal Ukrainian citizens who are just like us, after the war is done with is completely unacceptable.
It will be a long time before any civilians walk through these battle fields.
While I don't condone the use of these weapons, I understand it.
Ukraine is literally fighting for its life.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Canada commits to increase Canada's presence in Latvia to about 2200 by 2026. I have no idea how they're going to do this.
Crrently Canada has a total of 3 badly under strength brigades. So they're basically going to have a understrength brigade in Latvia. So to support that, there will have to be a brigade in Canada doing workups to deply, and a brigade that's on normal activity including training, leave, rearming. So is he saying that the majority of Canada's combat troops are going to be doing work for Latvia?
Part of the Brigade is the armored component which includes tanks. suppossedly Canada would commit 14 tanks to Latvia. But I doubt that we have that many tanks that are able to be deployed.
Cluster munitions are illegal. No argument can be made, it's not subjective.
Morally? Argue all you want.
Ukraine is fighting for its very survival. If they throw everything they have at the enemy, not sure I would necessarily judge them harshly for that - despite the fact that it is an illegal weapon. What choice do they have?
Let us not forget the thousands of instances of war crimes perpetrated by the Russian, as well as the invasion itself being a criminal operation.
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Cluster munitions are illegal. No argument can be made, it's not subjective.
Morally? Argue all you want.
Ukraine is fighting for its very survival. If they throw everything they have at the enemy, not sure I would necessarily judge them harshly for that - despite the fact that it is an illegal weapon. What choice do they have?
Let us not forget the thousands of instances of war crimes perpetrated by the Russian, as well as the invasion itself being a criminal operation.
It is only illegal if you are signatory to the agreement.
None of US, Ukraine or Russia are.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
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