[Rumour] Chris Johnston: Lindholm is interested in staying

[Paulie Walnuts]

Johnnys value was at an all time low, he was starting to look like a player who peaked at 99 points and was on a complete nosedive.

Treliving did the right thing trying to sign him to what he was worth at the time and he said no and had a big season and cashed in and went back to a 70 point player.

Lindholm is different because everyone in the league realizes what happened in Calgary last season impacted the players a lot.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

The Canucks just decided not to make at their captain $8.5M while they have Quinn Hughes and Elias Petterson because Horvat isn’t that guy.

They’re going to be better off for it.

Lindholm likewise isn’t that guy, even if he’s better than Horvat.

Yeah, but I bet they would have if they could have. They had the Miller contract which I think was a silly one.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Hackey

One guy has 6 Selke trophies and the other has 0.

Bergeron had won 1 Selke by Lindholm's current age. And he won that first Selke the year after BOS won the cup, because that's how media voted awards work.

Bergeron didn't crack 0.80 ppg between ages 23-30 (though his 2nd/3rd years in the league were both about 0.90). Lindholm has exceeded that mark 4/5 seasons, so one could argue that Lindholm has bit more offense (especially goal scoring).


I think Bergeron is the 2nd best centre in the Crosby era, and Lindholm isn't anywhere near his level...but it's also not an outlandish comparison.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

The Canucks just decided not to make at their captain $8.5M while they have Quinn Hughes and Elias Petterson because Horvat isn’t that guy.

They’re going to be better off for it.

Lindholm likewise isn’t that guy, even if he’s better than Horvat.

Canucks have definitely been a franchise for teams to model themselves after.

[Mr.Coffee]

I think the issue with Lindholm for me is, it is not abundantly clear yet how much Lindholm drives plays or how much he is just an incredible finisher / accessory from other players that drive plays. Like more specifically, were his good years just a result of Gaudreau and Tkachuk being amazing? Could you have put just about anybody on that line with similar results, like Backlund or Kadri? To what extent is Lindholm a star player if you're intending to pay him like one?

That Dubois contract which is likely colouring the market demand, is a bad contract (IMO). But, "bad" in the sense of today's cap world and presumably the Kings anticipate that relative to a rising cap it won't be that "bad". Lindholm is better than Dubois though, so arguably the ask at $9MM is starting to be realistic. Seems relatively clear though the guy just does not really want to stay in Calgary.

[Burning Beard]

Yeah I like Lindholm but if he doesn't want to be here then sayonara. It's not going to result in the Flames "winning" the trade at this point so we all have to be prepared for that and also be prepared for Kadri centering Huberdeau again this season. The longer this drags on the closer it looks like a reluctant rebuild on the horizon.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Canucks have definitely been a franchise for teams to model themselves after.

Lindholm is more Miller than Horvat.

If it was a bad idea to go with Miller, who has 3 PPG seasons to Horvat’s 0, how is it not a bad idea to give that same treatment to Lindholm?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Lindholm is more Miller than Horvat.

If it was a bad idea to go with Miller, who has 3 PPG seasons to Horvat’s 0, how is it not a bad idea to give that same treatment to Lindholm?

Miller was a bad idea because he's awful in the room and dogs it on the ice.

Not because of his offensive production.

[robertsfanatic]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I believe if there was a good offer on the table for Lindholm at this point, Conny would have pulled the trigger. I'm sure one of his top outcomes is get Lindholm signed, but I also bet he had internal deadlines and quality of offer triggers he had in place should Lindholm not have made his mind up yet. One can argue if it's lackluster GMing that made the offers not hit the mark, or if it's the market / environment - but I think a lot of indicators point to this being a very soft market unfortunately.

was just going to write something similar - why are we assuming he's not at least listening to offers while we await Lindholm's decision?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I think the issue with Lindholm for me is, it is not abundantly clear yet how much Lindholm drives plays or how much he is just an incredible finisher / accessory from other players that drive plays. Like more specifically, were his good years just a result of Gaudreau and Tkachuk being amazing? Could you have put just about anybody on that line with similar results, like Backlund or Kadri? To what extent is Lindholm a star player if you're intending to pay him like one?

Thing is, is the salary he's going to get, either here or elsewhere, being paid like a star, especially over the next 7-8 years?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Thing is, is the salary he's going to get, either here or elsewhere, being paid like a star, especially over the next 7-8 years?

Lindholm has risk though if he doesn't have a good year, as some will believe he was only good when paired with Gaudreau and Tkachuk.
The best time for him to sign with a team is probably now.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Lindholm has risk though if he doesn't have a good year, as some will believe he was only good when paired with Gaudreau and Tkachuk.
The best time for him to sign with a team is probably now.

Yes, but what I mean is - is 8.5-9M "star" salary in 2025-26? Or is it "good player" salary?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Miller was a bad idea because he's awful in the room and dogs it on the ice.

Not because of his offensive production.

And they punted Horvat because his offensive production wasn’t in line with his impact in the room @ $8.5M.

Lindholm’s production is fine. He can play with good players, which is a skill on its own.

But let’s not pretend this room doesn’t suck too - keeping Lindholm doesn’t seem like it would help that since he’s already been here five years.

Broader point: No matter what we do with Lindholm, we’re emulating the Canucks.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I think the issue with Lindholm for me is, it is not abundantly clear yet how much Lindholm drives plays or how much he is just an incredible finisher / accessory from other players that drive plays. Like more specifically, were his good years just a result of Gaudreau and Tkachuk being amazing? Could you have put just about anybody on that line with similar results, like Backlund or Kadri? To what extent is Lindholm a star player if you're intending to pay him like one?

That's a fair question to ask - but fans typically have such a narrow view of what makes someone a "play driver". Lindholm may defer to his teammates in transition, but it is his defensive play and attention to detail that allows his teammates the time and space to move the puck in a consistently positive direction. He may not be the one carrying the puck in most situations - but he is typically the key ingredient in allowing that breakout to occur in the first place. This is why the Huberdeau - Lindholm - Toffoli experiment was for lack of a better term a failure. There was no distinct "puck carrier" on that line, and Sutter elected to move Huberdeau off of the line, and not Toffoli, which was a mistake to begin with.

Any linemate who has seen consistent time with Lindholm since his arrival here has experienced a career season. I don't think that's a coincidence. He is a player that makes those around him significantly better. He may have only had 64 points last season, but that was with middling second line minutes and linemates who had never consistently produced at high rates previously. People don't take that into account.

He's the type of player that will always get overlooked to some degree.

He is certainly a 9m dollar player as we sit here today - but unfortunately the GM's across the league have created/allowed a market to develop that allows these players to be grossly overpaid on long term deals with little to no thought or benefit being given to the organization on the back end. It's a tough spot to be in - especially for a club that has already dished out three "retirement" contracts in the past year and change.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

I like lindholm, but he is not on Bergerons level.

No, but he is damn close.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by DJones

Ya I don't understand the argument of not paying him 8.5M. That's borderline 2C money now. In 8 years it'll be low end 2C which he should still be.

The true top players are going to be getting 12-14M soon.

You're slightly off.

There are only 13 Centers in the NHL making more than $8.5M.

The 33rd highest paid Center is Tage Thompson at $7.14M. Kadri is 36th.

A low end 2C would be at least 48th on the list, and that's Charlie Coyle who makes $5.25M. Backlund's $5.35M is 46th. Even if the cap goes up by $20M, that's a 25% bump those caphits would be in the range of $6.5-7M

Lindholm at $9M would make him have the 12th highest cap hit among centers. Now I don't see him impacting the game enough on a nightly basis to warrant that price tag.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

You're slightly off.

There are only 13 Centers in the NHL making more than $8.5M.

The 33rd highest paid Center is Tage Thompson at $7.14M. Kadri is 36th.

A low end 2C would be at least 48th on the list, and that's Charlie Coyle who makes $5.25M. Backlund's $5.35M is 46th. Even if the cap goes up by $20M, that's a 25% bump those caphits would be in the range of $6.5-7M

Lindholm at $9M would make him have the 12th highest cap hit among centers. Now I don't see him impacting the game enough on a nightly basis to warrant that price tag.

The list contains some things that need to be considered though. Like Crosby at under $9M due to the fact that he (a) signed over 10 years ago and (b) he loves the number 87.

Recent contacts are what GMs and agents look at. Barzal signed last year and he makes 9.1. Lindholm is better than Barzal. Barzal, Horvat - those are guys Lindholm's agent is pointing at I bet.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Hackey

One guy has 6 Selke trophies and the other has 0.

One guy has been around a lot longer on a better team in the East. Besides, even if it was reverse you would still bitch about it. You bitch about everything. You hate the roster, you hate the coaches, you hate the trades they make and the ones they don't. You hate the draft picks, you hate the farm team, you hate the history, present, and future of this team. You would probably try to burn the fn arena down if they ever made it to the SC final again.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

You're slightly off.

There are only 13 Centers in the NHL making more than $8.5M.

The 33rd highest paid Center is Tage Thompson at $7.14M. Kadri is 36th.

A low end 2C would be at least 48th on the list, and that's Charlie Coyle who makes $5.25M. Backlund's $5.35M is 46th. Even if the cap goes up by $20M, that's a 25% bump those caphits would be in the range of $6.5-7M

Lindholm at $9M would make him have the 12th highest cap hit among centers. Now I don't see him impacting the game enough on a nightly basis to warrant that price tag.

But Lindholm deal doesn't kick in until next year. Right now, there are 30 centers at $7.75 mil or above. That's only $800k less than about what Lindholm is offered. Maybe $1 mil. Next year he could be much lower on the list than 13th. I would say if the cap goes up, Lindholm at $8.5 could be considered low end 1st line C money and in 2 or 3 years it could be high end 2nd line money

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

You're slightly off.

There are only 13 Centers in the NHL making more than $8.5M.

The 33rd highest paid Center is Tage Thompson at $7.14M. Kadri is 36th.

A low end 2C would be at least 48th on the list, and that's Charlie Coyle who makes $5.25M. Backlund's $5.35M is 46th. Even if the cap goes up by $20M, that's a 25% bump those caphits would be in the range of $6.5-7M

Lindholm at $9M would make him have the 12th highest cap hit among centers. Now I don't see him impacting the game enough on a nightly basis to warrant that price tag.

As people keep commenting though, using "today" data on contracts isn't acceptable lens, for Lindholm or the Flames. So many variables at play, but if we just look at the Flames lens:

1. What type of player is Lindholm. The player he is when he had Gaudreau or was he being proppep up by line mates.
2. Once you make your evaluation of what he is - you then need to get your crystal ball out and decide, how much is that player worth, 2 to 3 years from now. I.e. you can't go, today that makes him the 12 highest paid centre, so he has to be the 12 best centre in the league - you need to try and predict where the cap goes and what the value for center's go as well into the future.
3. Then, you need to decide, how long will Lindholm be that player, and how long can you stomach your prediction on fair value.

Make a wrong call on anyone of those factors, and you potentially end up with a bad contract on the books...........which is why it's a tough gig.

If it was as easy as Lindholm isn't 12 best player in the league today, don't pay him 12th best money, all of us could be GMs of NHL hockey teams.