[Rumour] Chris Johnston: Lindholm is interested in staying

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Vegas also had a great season, then missed the playoffs, then won the SC the year after. It can be done.

The Stanley cup champs have a player whose previous dogs owner had a cousin with an 84 trans am, so do the flames, so we can win the cup now!
I hate these comparisons that have absolutely nothing to do with us playing better or making the playoffs, I’m going to go out on a limb and say next year’s championship team made the playoffs this year
(not picking on you, it is rampant throughout the forum)

[Lanny_McDonald]

You have to try and keep Lindholm. There is nothing in the system that can replace Lindholm and nothing available in the market to do the same. That possible ship has sailed. Lose Lindholm and the team takes a massive step backward.

Backlund is not giving a "hometown discount" based on what he's been saying. If anything, he's making demands (captaincy) the team should not be entertaining. Backlund has been a good player for the Flames, move the hell on and give your scouts the rounds in the chamber they need to target new talent to keep the organization healthy. No room for sentimentality. Get it done.

I disagree on the Nylander thing. I think the salary structure is as ####ed as humanly possible, but you're going to have to work through it until the cap grows and makes some of those contracts manageable. Nylander, or any other top six talent available, is going to cost you but if you want to have some success you need talent like him. Treliving left a steaming pile of #### behind him but that doesn't mean the Flames have to fold the franchise. Bring in the players you need at the top of the line up to compete and feel the pain in the middle and bottom of the lineup. Stop paying 3rd and 4th liners too much money and pay the guys whop produce the money required.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Bring in the players you need at the top of the line up to compete and feel the pain in the middle and bottom of the lineup. Stop paying 3rd and 4th liners too much money and pay the guys whop produce the money required.

Agree completely

[robertsfanatic]

if the Flames can graduate a couple of their young D-men the season after this one and move on from a couple of the older contracts up front then they would actually be in a decent place cap-wise....this would allow them to keep Lindholm and even trade for Nylander.

but Nylander shouldn't be more than $9M if you can make it happen.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I would have zero issues with re-signing Backlund, including with whatever direction this team is going (full rebuild, retool, compete now). It is doubtful that Backlund wants an 8 year deal. 2-3 years is fine. After that, you do 1 year deals. That's the caveat for me - a 3 year deal MAX.


Why would I be fine with it?
1) He is amazing for the community
2) Longest serving Flame by a mile
3) Hasn't dropped-off in production at all, and we can reasonably expect him to at least continue to be elite defensively when his production does drop off


I still see it as a package - Lindholm + Backlund... or what's the point? In my opinion, you add Lindholm to the other 3 long contracts in the hopes that you can win in the next 2-4 years while these players are still relatively in their primes (and that's arguable at that already). You are unlikely to find an upgrade internally or externally unless you make a hockey trade, but there are probably more important holes that will need to be filled anyway. Internally right now, Ruzicka and Zary are possible, but unlikely for a few years. Dube? He realistically might be able to replace Backlund, in a season or two.


I think if the goal is really to try and win, and re-signing Lindholm is the direction you want to go in, then you sign Backlund. If you don't sign Lindholm, this team probably takes another step back from being able to compete, and the Flames do a 1-2 year retool (if a rebuild remains out of the question. I would imagine that Backlund would also rather be traded as his seasons are running out, and the assets become part of that retool. That's why it makes sense to me to have them as a package deal.


The strength of the Flames right now is having 3 capable 2-way centres that are all good at generating some offence, while also playing a shutdown role. If you lose any one, then the group becomes more or less underwhelming when comparing against the other teams in the division.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Friedman on his podcast said that the Avs were in on Backlund at one point. Didn't offer any more details other than that.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Friedman on his podcast said that the Avs were in on Backlund at one point. Didn't offer any more details other than that.

Perfect replacement for Landeskog actually, with less offense obviously.

Johannsen acquisition likely ends any more of that talk though.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Tough not to improve the OT record as well.



7-0-17. Ouch.

Geez I had no idea it was that bad....

[genetic_phreek]

I'd be okay with a 5yr $9.5M AAV for Lindholm. Still on the "trade" train but if we had to keep him, try to minimize the term.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

With the notable exception of the Pens the second time there does seem to be a template though. Average age of the top 12 playoff scorers for the last 8 Cup winners below

Vegas - 27.8
Colorado - average age of top 12 playoff scorers 25.8
Tampa second time - 26.8
Tampa first time - 26.3
St Louis -26.8
Pittsburgh second time - 28.8
Pittsburgh first time - 26.6
Chicago last time - 27.8

The average for your top two thirds of your offensive lineup is between 26 to 28 years of age. Right now the Flames would have the following guys older than 28 who could reasonably be expected to be in their top 12 playoff scorers

Lindholm - 29 if they won next year
Kadri - 33 if they win next year
Backlund - 35 if they win next year
Huberdeau - 30 if they won next year
Coleman - 32 if they win next year
Weegar - 30 if they win next year

Average age - 31.5

To even equal the highest age in the past 8 cup winners the average age of the other 6 players would have to be 26.1

Other guys who could be expected to be in that group

Andersson - 27 if they win it next year
Dube - 25 if they win it next year
Mangiapane - 27 if they win it next year
Yegor - 25 if they win it next year

The Flames could possibly be slightly younger than the oldest team to win a Cup in the last 8 years if they do it next year and would certainly be older than any of the other 7 teams. Bottom line is old teams do not win Cups anymore. So there is a template, it is generally to have a younger team with the core guys being under 30 with the bulk of your teams top 9 forwards and top 3 dmen being under the age of 28, averaging out somewhere between 26 and 28.

Think median age might make more sense here. Since everyone is basically within 10 years - you can drop the average age to normal by trading Backlund or even having Confornato and Pelletier be part of the top 12 scorers in place of Coleman/Backlund and the Flames are suddenly young without really changing much.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Friedman on his podcast said that the Avs were in on Backlund at one point. Didn't offer any more details other than that.

I think they pivoted to the Ross Colton trade but I could assume it would have been a similar pick going back.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

With the notable exception of the Pens the second time there does seem to be a template though. Average age of the top 12 playoff scorers for the last 8 Cup winners below

Vegas - 27.8
Colorado - average age of top 12 playoff scorers 25.8
Tampa second time - 26.8
Tampa first time - 26.3
St Louis -26.8
Pittsburgh second time - 28.8
Pittsburgh first time - 26.6
Chicago last time - 27.8

The average for your top two thirds of your offensive lineup is between 26 to 28 years of age. Right now the Flames would have the following guys older than 28 who could reasonably be expected to be in their top 12 playoff scorers

Lindholm - 29 if they won next year
Kadri - 33 if they win next year
Backlund - 35 if they win next year
Huberdeau - 30 if they won next year
Coleman - 32 if they win next year
Weegar - 30 if they win next year

Average age - 31.5

To even equal the highest age in the past 8 cup winners the average age of the other 6 players would have to be 26.1

Other guys who could be expected to be in that group

Andersson - 27 if they win it next year
Dube - 25 if they win it next year
Mangiapane - 27 if they win it next year
Yegor - 25 if they win it next year

The Flames could possibly be slightly younger than the oldest team to win a Cup in the last 8 years if they do it next year and would certainly be older than any of the other 7 teams. Bottom line is old teams do not win Cups anymore. So there is a template, it is generally to have a younger team with the core guys being under 30 with the bulk of your teams top 9 forwards and top 3 dmen being under the age of 28, averaging out somewhere between 26 and 28.

Thanks for digging this up. Illustrates the conundrum we’re facing now perfectly.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Thanks for digging this up. Illustrates the conundrum we’re facing now perfectly.

Most teams know this, it is why Vegas moved out a 32 year old Reilly Smith so they could sign a 27 year old Barbashev for the same price. Likelihood is that Barbashev out produces Smith over the next two years, based on age alone.

[saillias]

how many weeks or months of begging Lindholm do you think it will take before he either signs for 9 bloody million or says no thank you. I don't understand this. On a contender he's the 4th or 5th most important player.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by saillias

how many weeks or months of begging Lindholm do you think it will take before he either signs for 9 bloody million or says no thank you. I don't understand this. On a contender he's the 4th or 5th most important player.

I think one thing that's missing is what is driving the urgency of putting a line in the sand for either side right now? Versus, still weighing it out.

For Lindholm, what reason does he have to make up his mind now? The answer is none, unless the Flames are willing to pull the offer they have made. Which brings us to the next points.

What urgency do the Flames have now to pull the offer? The answer is probably none. They likely had some urgency around the Draft and Free agency day, IF, the deals available to them were worth moving on. I'm going to guess (although I might be wrong) that if a deal that was worth parting with Lindholm for, was out there for Conny to take around the draft or Free Agency day, he would have taken it, given Lindholm hasn't signed. I'm sure Conny has a list of outcomes, that near the top is a certain trade package for Lindholm, and Lindholm signing at a certain rate. Unfortunately, neither of those materialized it appears, so we wait.

I think the notion of Conroy is NOT doing anything because he's waiting on Lindholm is silly. No one is begging him, just the triggers for action haven't been met. Lindholm hasn't signed, and he has no urgency too at the moment, and won't until the start of the season. And as much as Conroy doesn't want to start the season with him un-signed or not traded, the trade packages likely weren't worth it. So unfortunately we wait, and have to accept that Plan A didn't work out. Hopefully Plan B will at some point.

[Jason14h]

If your Lindholm what motivation do you have to sign with the Flames at this moment

He isn’t coming off a great year . He gets a chance at being a UFA for the first time . The Flames don’t look (on paper) to be more then a wild card contender this year.

It’s hard for the Flames to put pressure on him , because then he just walks away

And really at this point I’m not sure there’s a trade for Lindholm until the deadline anyways

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Most teams know this, it is why Vegas moved out a 32 year old Reilly Smith so they could sign a 27 year old Barbashev for the same price. Likelihood is that Barbashev out produces Smith over the next two years, based on age alone.

This is just the beginning of that cycle too. Not only will the Flames be ancient, but they won't be able to re-sign young breakout players for a long time because the money is gone.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

If your Lindholm what motivation do you have to sign with the Flames at this moment

He isn’t coming off a great year . He gets a chance at being a UFA for the first time . The Flames don’t look (on paper) to be more then a wild card contender this year.

It’s hard for the Flames to put pressure on him , because then he just walks away

And really at this point I’m not sure there’s a trade for Lindholm until the deadline anyways

If he has another lackluster year with the Flames it would lower his future contract considerably. He will be viewed as a 60pt C instead of a 40G/80P C. Especially, if his lines gets worse analytics this year due to a change of system.

Take Taylor Hall as an example, where he gambled on a 1 year contract in Buffalo, his value fell from an $8M+ to $6M. Klingberg is another example, Dallas was supposedly offering him a $6M+ contract on a long term, he signed for $7M for a year, now he settled for $4.15M for another year.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

If your Lindholm what motivation do you have to sign with the Flames at this moment

He isn’t coming off a great year . He gets a chance at being a UFA for the first time . The Flames don’t look (on paper) to be more then a wild card contender this year.

It’s hard for the Flames to put pressure on him , because then he just walks away

And really at this point I’m not sure there’s a trade for Lindholm until the deadline anyways

IMO, Lindholm will be extended or traded by camp - going into the season and risking an injury that tanks his value is something neither side can afford.

[Moneyhands23]

The longer this drags on the more I feel it's going to be an overpay to stay. If he wanted to be here he would have signed by now.
Just makes zero sense that his heart is with the team.