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Old 07-03-2023, 11:03 AM   #21
SeanCharles
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Originally Posted by transplant99 View Post
Just a tire fire in the 200' game and simply not offensive enough to cover that glaring deficit in his game.

Big red flag.
Actually his defensive game is not in question. By all accounts, especially from Wings fans, he is very solid in that regard.
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Old 07-03-2023, 11:06 AM   #22
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Yzerman seems to demand a certain amount of character, and if you don't have it, he doesn't want you around. Saw it in TB with DeAngelo and Ingram, and now here in Detroit with Vrana and Zadina.
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Old 07-03-2023, 11:29 AM   #23
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Yzerman says that Zadina asked for a trade and couldn't find a partner. Putting him on waivers to see if someone claims him.
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Old 07-03-2023, 01:41 PM   #24
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I haven’t followed his career path much but at one point he was highly touted.
Is he that bad you wouldn’t even burn a 4th/5th?

Flames need bodies
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Old 07-03-2023, 01:46 PM   #25
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Old 07-03-2023, 02:26 PM   #26
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Flames could claim him and get back up to two Big Zs
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Old 07-03-2023, 02:32 PM   #27
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what a disappointing first round that was.

Zadina, Hayton, Kupari, Bokk, Merkley, Denisenko, Kaut, Smith, Alexeyev, Beaudin, Bernard-Docker, Johansson, Foudy, O'Brien, Kravtsov all have yet to establish themselves as regulars.

Wahlstrom, Veleno, Lundkvist, Lundestrom, Farabee, Dellandrea all not what hoped for thus far. Kotkianemi too, you could argue.

Dahlin, Svech, Hughes, Boqvist, Bouchard, Dobson, and Miller varying degrees of success, but the clear best picks.
In a re-draft, Sharangovich who was drafted in the 5th round, would likely be a mid 1st rounder.
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Old 07-03-2023, 02:51 PM   #28
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Quote:
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what a disappointing first round that was.

Zadina, Hayton, Kupari, Bokk, Merkley, Denisenko, Kaut, Smith, Alexeyev, Beaudin, Bernard-Docker, Johansson, Foudy, O'Brien, Kravtsov all have yet to establish themselves as regulars.

Wahlstrom, Veleno, Lundkvist, Lundestrom, Farabee, Dellandrea all not what hoped for thus far. Kotkianemi too, you could argue.

Dahlin, Svech, Hughes, Boqvist, Bouchard, Dobson, and Miller varying degrees of success, but the clear best picks.
This is what I think of when everyone wants to trade for mid to late firsts
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Old 07-03-2023, 02:58 PM   #29
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Yup, this is why I always say 1st rnd picks are overhyped, the majority of them don't become impact players.
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Old 07-03-2023, 03:00 PM   #30
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I haven’t followed his career path much but at one point he was highly touted.
Is he that bad you wouldn’t even burn a 4th/5th?

Flames need bodies
The flames can't afford bodies, without moving bodies out.
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Old 07-03-2023, 03:08 PM   #31
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I haven’t followed his career path much but at one point he was highly touted.
Is he that bad you wouldn’t even burn a 4th/5th?
He was once highly touted like many Red Wings draft picks after an era of amazing drafting.

"He must be good if the Wings picked him."

But he's still super raw for a 23 year old. Not that he can't turn his career around with a change of scenery.
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Old 07-03-2023, 03:12 PM   #32
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Yup, this is why I always say 1st rnd picks are overhyped, the majority of them don't become impact players.
You still need to have them in order to actually hit on one.
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Old 07-03-2023, 03:18 PM   #33
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Do it Conny.
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Old 07-03-2023, 03:29 PM   #34
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If Detroit wants to eat $800k, I'd give him another chance for a 6th in 2025.
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Old 07-03-2023, 03:44 PM   #35
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Ken Holland showing his genius on a level playing field.

Quinn Hughes goes next.

Reading on Twitter he traded the Chychurn pick to Arizona with Datsyuk so he could signs Fran Nielsen lol.

Just a goalie away
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Old 07-03-2023, 03:52 PM   #36
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You still need to have them in order to actually hit on one.
Sure you do but I am taking about when people want to trade established in their prime players for a 1st and think it's an automatic win. Sometimes, but mostly it isn't.
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Old 07-03-2023, 05:57 PM   #37
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Yup, this is why I always say 1st rnd picks are overhyped, the majority of them don't become impact players.
I've really appreciated your inside hits the past season. Also I understand that sometimes what is reported shifts quickly and don't hold those that report what they heard at a point in time responsible for their accurately reported take not coming to fruition. Just wanted to say that upfront.

On to your comment I'd like to build on. When it comes to picks, prospects and players, they should all fit on a risk / return frontier in my opinion.

Risk being measured as probability of success. Return being their likelihood of fulfilling their positional role with AAV accounted for.

E.g.: Kadri would be an AAV of $7m and a 99% COS of being a 2nd line center with 50pts. A 2nd round draft pick would be a 20% COS of being a 2nd line center scoring 50pts, but would only cost $895k.

$/pt Kadri = $140k; $/pt 2nd Rounder = $18k

Divide by the CoS

Risked Kadri = $141/pt; Risked 2nd Rounder = $90/pt

If a particular draft pick has less than a 13% chance of scoring those 50pts then they're even with Kadri's risk.

Now for years I assume that the Flames have some version of this ranking with age cohorts vs a model of what they need to win a Stanley Cup (e.g. Elite Dman, Elite Centre, Elite Goaltender, etc), but the more I hear from the inside the more I have my doubts.
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Old 07-03-2023, 06:00 PM   #38
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Sign and reform.
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Old 07-03-2023, 08:08 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutuu View Post
I've really appreciated your inside hits the past season. Also I understand that sometimes what is reported shifts quickly and don't hold those that report what they heard at a point in time responsible for their accurately reported take not coming to fruition. Just wanted to say that upfront.

On to your comment I'd like to build on. When it comes to picks, prospects and players, they should all fit on a risk / return frontier in my opinion.

Risk being measured as probability of success. Return being their likelihood of fulfilling their positional role with AAV accounted for.

E.g.: Kadri would be an AAV of $7m and a 99% COS of being a 2nd line center with 50pts. A 2nd round draft pick would be a 20% COS of being a 2nd line center scoring 50pts, but would only cost $895k.

$/pt Kadri = $140k; $/pt 2nd Rounder = $18k

Divide by the CoS

Risked Kadri = $141/pt; Risked 2nd Rounder = $90/pt

If a particular draft pick has less than a 13% chance of scoring those 50pts then they're even with Kadri's risk.

Now for years I assume that the Flames have some version of this ranking with age cohorts vs a model of what they need to win a Stanley Cup (e.g. Elite Dman, Elite Centre, Elite Goaltender, etc), but the more I hear from the inside the more I have my doubts.
That is all very interest, but the problem with your model is that the chance for the 2nd round pick hitting 50 points next year is basically zero. The 50 point plateau might be the high water mark over his career.
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Old 07-03-2023, 08:12 PM   #40
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Yeah, the chances of a 2nd round pick becoming an NHLer (100 games, or 200 games, or whatever benchmark you want to use), is about 20%.

The chances of a 2nd rounder being a perennial 50 point player would be a fair bit less than 10%
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