[Rumour] Chris Johnston: Lindholm is interested in staying

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Locke

At this point I'd say Brad owes us this one.

If this was 4 years ago I'd love having Kadri on this team. But its not.

Kadri for Brodie do-over. Come on Brad, don't miss out on this opportunity twice.

[Locke]

Yeah...whatever. I just want to move away from Lindholm because we have too many long contracts for antiques.

I'm unfazed about his 'home' thing. My sister has an Instagram account for cat FFS, who cares? The world is weird now, whatever, move along.

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I'm just saying you have options the only option isn't paying a 37 year old Lindholm 8.2 amd if he's playing at a 4th line level the cap hits are 2 years.

You can retain salary and send him to Arizona.

It's not the end of the world especially when the cap is going to be in the 100s these contracts won't look that bad.

There are a few posters on here that justify the bad contracts with this reasoning, unfortunately bad contracts are bad contracts.
Any time you have an inefficient use of your cap space you are putting your team in a hole.
Great if the cap is 100M, if we are overpaying a couple guys by 2-3 million each we are starting at 95M not 100M.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

There are a few posters on here that justify the bad contracts with this reasoning, unfortunately bad contracts are bad contracts.
Any time you have an inefficient use of your cap space you are putting your team in a hole.
Great if the cap is 100M, if we are overpaying a couple guys by 2-3 million each we are starting at 95M not 100M.

Yeah, fact of the matter remains that you can look at an increasing cap essentially as inflation.

While the Cap will go up, in that time the contractual cost of players, all players, will increase accordingly.

The $4M guy in 2023 will be a $5M in 2025/26. The cap goes up, so do the salary demands. Its not like the cap goes up and the new players get paid the same.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Locke

Yeah...whatever. I just want to move away from Lindholm because we have too many long contracts for antiques.

I'm unfazed about his 'home' thing. My sister has an Instagram account for cat FFS, who cares? The world is weird now, whatever, move along.

I want to move on from Lindholm no matter what and tried to add a joke to my reasoning versus the standard, age, length, dollar conversation repeated ad nauseuam.

I didn't know this was such a serious topic. Carry on everyone lol

[Southside403]

When is the last time we had a center over 6ft2

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Locke

Yeah, fact of the matter remains that you can look at an increasing cap essentially as inflation.

While the Cap will go up, in that time the contractual cost of players, all players, will increase accordingly.

The $4M guy in 2023 will be a $5M in 2025/26. The cap goes up, so do the salary demands. Its not like the cap goes up and the new players get paid the same.

This is why long-term deals are a great value for players in their early to mid 20s, where their play gets better but their cap hit becomes more and more of a bargain over time.

The Flames are unfortunately using this logic to overpay for older players now, who will remain overpaid as their play gets worse even as their relative cap hit depletes.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Groot

I want to move on from Lindholm no matter what and tried to add a joke to my reasoning versus the standard, age, length, dollar conversation repeated ad nauseuam.

I didn't know this was such a serious topic. Carry on everyone lol

Oh, I figured, unfortunately I think you touched a bit a sore spot for some.

Lindholm, Backlund and Markstrom all had fairly important personal milestones in their lives this year, and I've heard speculation that these distractions led to sub-par performances and then Lindholm and Backstrom have the nerve to essentially be holdouts?

So...personal off-ice distractions are rubbing some people the wrong way lately.

I mean, an Instagram account for your home build? I'd agree thats pretty lame, but I personally, genuinely couldnt care less.

Backlund is great, I like him, but he's old. Lindholm is too old and doesnt produce enough for what he wants and I'm not even going to start on Markstrom.

If he doesnt i-goddamned-mediately remember how to hockey, something is going to have to happen with him.

He was, without question, the WORST starting goaltender in the NHL last season. Whatever it is, he's gotta figure it out. Or else Conroy is going to have to trade him to Vladivostok if thats what it takes.

We'll take a barrel of Whale Oil and some of the day's catch. Whatever.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Locke

Oh, I figured, unfortunately I think you touched a bit a sore spot for some.

Lindholm, Backlund and Markstrom all had fairly important personal milestones in their lives this year, and I've heard speculation that these distractions led to sub-par performances and then Lindholm and Backstrom have the nerve to essentially be holdouts?

So...personal off-ice distractions are rubbing some people the wrong way lately.

I mean, an Instagram account for your home build? I'd agree thats pretty lame, but I personally, genuinely couldnt care less.

Backlund is great, I like him, but he's old. Lindholm is too old and doesnt produce enough for what he wants and I'm not even going to start on Markstrom.

If he doesnt i-goddamned-mediately remember how to hockey, something is going to have to happen with him.

He was, without question, the WORST starting goaltender in the NHL last season. Whatever it is, he's gotta figure it out. Or else Conroy is going to have to trade him to Vladivostok if thats what it takes.

We'll take a barrel of Whale Oil and some of the day's catch. Whatever.

I dont understand this narrative at all.

Since he became a Flame he is 15 in the entire NHL in points. So offense has been tremendous.

Defensively he has been elite.

So....what is it you would consider "enough"?

Genuinely curious.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I dont understand this narrative at all.

Since he became a Flame he is 15 in the entire NHL in points. So offense has been tremendous.

Defensively he has been elite.

So....what is it you would consider "enough"?

Genuinely curious.

You're talking about what he has done from 23-28.

Others are talking about what can resonably be projected from 30-38 at twice the cost.

And this is leaving out the entire discussion of linemates.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Locke

Yeah, fact of the matter remains that you can look at an increasing cap essentially as inflation.

While the Cap will go up, in that time the contractual cost of players, all players, will increase accordingly.

The $4M guy in 2023 will be a $5M in 2025/26. The cap goes up, so do the salary demands. Its not like the cap goes up and the new players get paid the same.

Yes, but the current, long term contracts stay the same. That's the point of long term contracts. I mean, you're an accountant.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

You're talking about what he has done from 23-28.

Others are talking about what can resonably be projected from 30-38 at twice the cost.

And this is leaving out the entire discussion of linemates.

This is such a weird argument - ALL good players play with other good players. Every one of the guys at the top of that list referenced above, would be playing with other productive players. I would argue that, other than last year, Lindholm's line-mates have probably been pretty pedestrian, relative to most on that list.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I dont understand this narrative at all.

Since he became a Flame he is 15 in the entire NHL in points. So offense has been tremendous.

Defensively he has been elite.

So....what is it you would consider "enough"?

Genuinely curious.

Is he really elite defensively? I hear this thrown around here at times but I don't see him on advanced stats lists of top shutdown centers. I think he's solid defensively but I don't think he's elite or in Backlund territory defensively.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Royle9

I feel like if he wanted to be here he would have signed already, especially given the fact the flames rolled out the carpet for him apparently...

What are you talking about?

Free agency did not even open until around dinner time is Sweden, which was his earliest possible opportunity to sign a contract. How many players sign extensions at the first moment they are able to, a full year ahead of their current contract expiration.

This narrative is nonsense.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This is such a weird argument - ALL good players play with other good players. Every one of the guys at the top of that list referenced above, would be playing with other productive players. I would argue that, other than last year, Lindholm's line-mates have probably been pretty pedestrian, relative to most on that list.

If he needs to be on a line with 2 MVP candidates with 100+ pts, just to get near a PPG, that's probably a bit of a red flag there.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This is such a weird argument - ALL good players play with other good players. Every one of the guys at the top of that list referenced above, would be playing with other productive players. I would argue that, other than last year, Lindholm's line-mates have probably been pretty pedestrian, relative to most on that list.

You don't think playing with Tkachuk and Gaudreau might have inflated his numbers relative to Huberdeau and Lucic?

Great players elevate those around them, and put up points regardless of how scrubby their linemates are - like McNuggets and Crysaddle put up 100+ points no matter how many AHL plebs they see within their 30+ minutes of ice time. Tkachuk put up a season for the ages with Samwise ****ing Bennett as his centre.

Lindholm was clearly the 3rd best player on that line, and his numbers reflect it. I don't think that much can really be argued. While I don't ncecessarily think he will be a 55-60 point player for his entire contract (nor will Huberdeau) with a good coach, I also don't think the Flames currently have a good coach, and they may not before age inevitably takes its toll on their ability. Therefore, he will be overpaid for the duration of any 8 year extension, his presence or absence makes no material difference to the Flames' chances of winning anything of repute, and should be traded.

Management feels differently. I don't care anymore, but management is dead-ass wrong.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Groot

I want to move on from Lindholm no matter what and tried to add a joke to my reasoning versus the standard, age, length, dollar conversation repeated ad nauseuam.

I didn't know this was such a serious topic. Carry on everyone lol

Still weird.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by memphusk

Still weird.

I appreciate your invaluable feedback lmao

[Spurs]

If he is that amazing I can’t wait to see all the teams fighting over who can give us the biggest haul to get him.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I dont understand this narrative at all.

Since he became a Flame he is 15 in the entire NHL in points. So offense has been tremendous.

Defensively he has been elite.

So....what is it you would consider "enough"?

Genuinely curious.

You basically answered your own question.

I'd wager that we've more or less gotten the best out of Lindholm. Why pay double for less?

We are not in a position to pay him more for what he 'has done' as much as realistically evaluate what he 'will do.'