[Trade] Flames trade Toffoli to NJ for RFA rights to Sharangovich and 80th OA

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

From reading the comments, it sounds like many wanted the trade to look like Toffoli for Younger Toffoli + 3rd round pick. That was never going to happen, and judging Conroy based on that framework is unrealistic.

My second comment is that you can't be excited about the Flames getting picks for this upcoming draft while also panning the Flames for picking up a young, somewhat unproven NHL player. It's the same talent identification process. If you don't think they can identify talent, then there's no sense in wanting the Flames to take the direction of rebuilding through multiple trades that accumulate draft picks.

In a theoretical world, I would have liked it if Conroy could have pushed the 3rd round pick to a 2nd with some salary retention (assuming NJ had one). But I would not have done that if I was New Jersey... I'd rather pay $1-2 million in salary than give up a second rounder.

[SuperMatt18]

I get Toffoli wanting to cash in, he's never going to have an offense in the NHL structured around him again like it was in 22-23.

He was stapled to the top Center with Lindholm all season. It's interesting how when Huberdeau-Lindholm-Toffoli wasn't working it was Toffoli thay never got shuffled off the line, and how they never split up Lindholm and Toffoli even though having our only 2 RH shot forwards on the same line never made sense.

He was the focal point of a PP that got him lots of points but wasn't very effective overall, and had Lindholm and Huberdeau reduced to support pieces.

I posted it already but I'm intrigued to see what his stats are next year when he's likely on the second line and second PP unit.

[JohnnyB]

I'm not sure how anyone could really see trading your number one scorer for a 30 point forward and a pick as a win now move. It looks like a move that makes the Flames substantially worse on the ice for the upcoming season. If these are the kinds of moves they make with Lindholm, Hannifin and Backlund, the Flames are going to be a much worse team in 23-24. This trade sets a standard suited for those hoping to see the team tank and go into a rebuild.

[Wood]

I do wonder where Toffoli will fit in with NJ. 5v5 and on PP

They already have an elite, pure shooter in Timo Meier who's going to be above Toffoli on the depth chart. They're going to want to get Holtz in there and he's a pure shooter as well

Hughes is amazing at a lot of things but he's an extremely high shot-volume player. I think Toffoli being a pure perimeter shooter took away from Lindholms strengths as a shooter in the slot

The reason Sharangovich was on the block is because they already had too many guys of a similar build

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

No it’s more likely that he didn’t counter aggressively enough, again obviously just guessing here. He has a new relationship management thing he has to get going with 31 GMs and the establishment of a reputation to consider. But, put yourself in NJ’s shoes. If he asked you for a 2nd, would you still do the trade? I would.

Why guess about things that may or may not have been offered.

It's not like it's Conroy and three summer interns in charge. He has two guys that have been GMs beside him in multiple cities.

No point in pretending that he could have gotten better when there is zero reason to believe that.

[Robbob]

This is a calculated gamble on trying to get a player about to break through. Compare his first few years to a player like Mangipane and Sharangovich is there or even a bit ahead. Mangipane had his break out year in a contract season. Here is hoping Conroy can get Sharangovich signed to a friendly contract before he pops. As someone mentioned, he is already one of the more productive players from the 2018, there is something there.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Have never understood the quick jump to face off percentages in assessing a center.

The reads and 200 foot game required to play the position by far out weigh the ability to win a face off.

Iginla used to take draws for his center and then move back to the wing defensively.

Monahan took most of the draws but went the wing often for Lindholm to play the center ice position.

(and not saying Sharngovich is a 200 foot center whizz, but it would take more analysis then face off counts to prove either way)

You're not wrong, but 36% in the do is a major red flag if the team expect him to play center, even if his 200ft game is stout. Now the Flames can maximize his ability with strong side only faceoffs etc. and having a winger take draws on the weak side, but he does need to shore that area up.

An exciting young player nonetheless. I would expect the Flames to try and sign him to a 4-5 year deal that could turn out to be a bargain off the back of a down year last year.

[Wood]

Sorry if already mentioned, but Friedman suggested on his podcast that Chris Snow most likely pushed for Sharangovich due to his analytics

[annasuave]

Wrong thread

[sketchyt]

Reading through the Devils subreddit since I've barely seen this guy play (although there seem to be a lot of experts in this thread about him). Here's what I picked up:

• Good on PK
• Great shot
• Good teammate/attitude
• Struggled in a bottom six role
• Lots of untapped potential
• Sad to see him go

So far, I see this trade as a win/win for both teams. Cap space and draft picks in the first three rounds isn't cheap to come by.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I just think the market is a bit soft. I still think the Flames had to trade Toffoli now, rather than risk the deadline. It becomes a difficult thing to try and sell a player at the deadline when your team is in the race, especially if they are holding a playoff spot. Not many teams do it. Also, injuries happen, and we have also seen trade deadlines that were very soft as well.


If a lot of GMs decide not to trade away some of the players that they were hoping to because the market is a little soft, then the deadline will probably be soft as well.



I am underwhelmed by this trade no matter how people try to rationalize it. However, that's just what a soft market is. I am sure that Conroy accepted the best package for Toffoli, period.



I didn't want the Flames heading into the year with Toffoli. I also don't want them to go in with Tanev as I feel he is an injury risk to try and wait for the deadline - otherwise I would much prefer to wait until the deadline.


You always 'lose' the trade when you give up the best player in the deal, but contracts matter. Sarangovich will most likely get more opportunity here in Calgary this year, and who knows? Maybe he takes a big step forward, and this trade will look lopsided the other way. That's what the Flames have banked on, and they probably have watched a lot more video on him than most people here, and have put him through their analytics to figure out if he was a good target or not (as claimed by Friedman). This trade could be a great trade with hindsight, especially with what I perceive as a soft market.


I am definitely underwhelmed, as it stands right now, but I wouldn't call it disastrous. It has potential, and this is a soft market.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I'm not sure how anyone could really see trading your number one scorer for a 30 point forward and a pick as a win now move. It looks like a move that makes the Flames substantially worse on the ice for the upcoming season. If these are the kinds of moves they make with Lindholm, Hannifin and Backlund, the Flames are going to be a much worse team in 23-24. This trade sets a standard suited for those hoping to see the team tank and go into a rebuild.

If you're gonna tank you should go full tank. Which is why this deal is so baffling. We're going to back ourselves into being a bottom feeder and burn our only assets in the process. Brilliant!

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Why guess about things that may or may not have been offered.

It's not like it's Conroy and three summer interns in charge. He has two guys that have been GMs beside him in multiple cities.

No point in pretending that he could have gotten better when there is zero reason to believe that.

Yeah no sense criticizing the negotiating process. It does seem like the Flames put a higher value on this player than others around the league (at least based on some of the articles I have seen). Time will tell if they got it right. At least they got younger and made a bet on potential.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Goes both ways, bud.

Pretty sure "bud" is the most cringeworthy thing you can call someone you don't know.

Thanks for that.

I'm not a fan of labeling either way.

[PeteMoss]

Most important consideration - what are we going to call this guy on here because there is no way anyone is going to write out that full name correctly on a regular basis.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Most important consideration - what are we going to call this guy on here because there is no way anyone is going to write out that full name correctly on a regular basis.

It's pronounced "I-gor"

[memphusk]

Eye gore?

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Im profoundly disappointed in people leaking trade demands. It has lowered the return for toffoli and doesn’t inspire me to think that hanifin and lindholm and backlund will return market value.

This org needs to tighten the ship. Loose lips sink trade values.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by CDN

We might just draft the next Johnny G.

Those are 4th round picks where we do that.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Most important consideration - what are we going to call this guy on here because there is no way anyone is going to write out that full name correctly on a regular basis.

Sharon