2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Royle9]

Sitting here waiting for Sec's morning update has me tweakin

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by transplant99

This is just whacky.

Since he joined the Flames and among ALL NHL centers, Lindholm is 13th in goals, 20th in assists, 15th in total points, 3rd in +/-, and has 2 Selke finalist noms iirc.

Argue that you don't want to extend guys 8 years all you want, but base it on reality. This guy is the most complete and dynamic C the Flames have seen since Joe was in his prime.

Lindy has been a centre for about 2.3 seasons.

1.3 seasons with Gaudreau and Tkachuk. I think we can roughly put that at 99 games (Monahan played 65 games in 20/21, so Lindy got about 17 games as the centre between Johnny and Chucky when that line was formed). Lindy had 14 points in the finale 17 games of 20/21. That brings him to 96 points in 99 games with those players as a centre.

1 season with...Toffoli and...Dube? I can't even really remember last season. He put up 64 points in 80 games.

179 games being considered "many years now" is absurd. I'm also not saying Lindholm is bad by any stretch, but this contract would run 29-37, and loading a roster with high paid players who entering the non-peak years of their careers is a disaster.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Prime years are behind him at age 28?

Well I guess that teams should never give draft choices 8 year deals after their ELC then, because at the least they will be 29 when they expire and would be paying for non prime years!

As for the rest...EVERY team has to have a great supporting cast to win it all.

Im not even advocating to signing Lindholm long term, but to suggest he is and as been anything other than a bonafide #1 C in this league for many years now is frankly, absurd.

On average yes his best years will be behind him at 28 but to be clear, he will be 30 years old one month into his next contract.

And I don't know why you are being purposely obtuse here. Just because a forward peaks in their mid 20s doesn't mean they aren't worth signing for 8 years with consideration of locking them up for their best years in a world where the salary cap typically rises each year. I wasn't arguing against that.

[Poe969]

Great C makes average wingers look like all-stars. Good C's look average because of average wingers.

Lindholm can't carry a line of average wingers and make them look great.

[colbym72]

Yeah I love Lindholm, but I just don't see the dynamic ability to take over a game on your own that I look for from a number one centre. I would consider him a low end 1C and elite 2C.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yes but he doesn't elevate his wingers as he's the complementary guy to elite wingers. It's not like McDavid, MacKinnon, Crosby, etc where they are the offensive drivers of their line. You will only get from Lindholm what you provide him as wingers, nothing more. I don't think that's an ideal 1st line center.

Even if he’s not a true top centre, if the cap is going up dramatically and 8.5 becomes the new 5, Lindholm is a guy who’s a great 2C as he ages. You need some experience on a rebuilding team, and if the Flames draft a 1C Lindholm is there as he develops.

You trade him if his demands are unreasonable/unaffordable or the offers are just too good to refuse.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yeah and you can argue that his best seasons of production are based on playing alongside Gaudreau. Last season is what you get from him when he's not propped up by an elite winger. Still good player but he reverts back to the 20 goal, 60 point player he is. I don't think a team could win a Stanley Cup with Lindholm as their top center. Flames couldn't get past the 2nd round with him centering two of the best wingers in the NHL.

I can also argue Gaudreaus best season was based on playing with Lindholm.

As for the rest of it, you are now blaming the top line for junior level goaltending?

Come on dude.

[Poe969]

If the Flames draft a #1C... here's the problem: you won't usually draft a #1C out of the top 5 for the most part, keeping Lindholm will make the team not bad enough to draft that low.

You can't keep him and still be bad enough to draft top 5. Signing Lindholm keeps the Flames drafting around 15.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Lindy has been a centre for about 2.3 seasons.

1.3 seasons with Gaudreau and Tkachuk. I think we can roughly put that at 99 games (Monahan played 65 games in 21/22, so Lindy got about 17 games as the centre between Johnny and Chucky when that line was formed). Lindy had 14 points in the finale 17 games of 21/22. That brings him to 96 points in 99 games with those players as a centre.

1 season with...Toffoli and...Dube? I can't even really remember last season. He put up 64 points in 80 games.

179 games being considered "many years now" is absurd. I'm also not saying Lindholm is bad by any stretch, but this contract would run 29-37, and loading a roster with high paid players who entering the non-peak years of their careers is a disaster.

What?

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by transplant99

What?

Are you forgetting that when we acquired him he was a RW for us?

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm.

Lindy didn't get shifted to C until they shut down Monahan.

Oops my post screwed up on year, Lindy became a C in 20/21. Game count was right, year was wrong.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Poe969

If the Flames draft a #1C... here's the problem: you won't usually draft a #1C out of the top 5 for the most part, keeping Lindholm will make the team not bad enough to draft that low.

You can't keep him and still be bad enough to draft top 5. Signing Lindholm keeps the Flames drafting around 15.

San Jose is drafting 4OA and they have a Norris winning defenceman who put up 100+ points.

They also had Couture, Hertl, and almost a full year of Meier.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Even if he’s not a true top centre, if the cap is going up dramatically and 8.5 becomes the new 5, Lindholm is a guy who’s a great 2C as he ages. You need some experience on a rebuilding team, and if the Flames draft a 1C Lindholm is there as he develops.

You trade him if his demands are unreasonable/unaffordable or the offers are just too good to refuse.

Yes the cap is going up, but 8.5 is certainly not the new ( I assume you mean old) 5.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Even if he’s not a true top centre, if the cap is going up dramatically and 8.5 becomes the new 5, Lindholm is a guy who’s a great 2C as he ages. You need some experience on a rebuilding team, and if the Flames draft a 1C Lindholm is there as he develops.

You trade him if his demands are unreasonable/unaffordable or the offers are just too good to refuse.

The team has Kadri signed for six more seasons. You sign Lindholm to 8 and you have a lot of money tied into two aging centers. I'm on the fence here as I will be fine if the Flames can sign him because he's a good player but if he wants to walk I'm totally fine as well as on a nightly basis I just don't see enough from him.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Are you forgetting that when we acquired him he was a RW for us?

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm.

Lindy didn't get shifted to C until they shut down Monahan.

He took more draws than Monahan.

[Jiggy]

Lindholm does a lot of the dirty work and takes care of the defensive side of the game so much that his wingers benefit from it. It's not sexy and doesn't show up on the stat sheet. Any coincidence Toffoli had a career year playing on Lindholm's wing? People have to eventually give Lindholm credit instead of saying he sucks without good wingers.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by colbym72

Yeah I love Lindholm, but I just don't see the dynamic ability to take over a game on your own that I look for from a number one centre. I would consider him a low end 1C and elite 2C.

There are maybe 5 or 6 guys in the entire league that can "take a game over on their own" and even then it is a rare occurrence, and not all of them are C's.

Im not saying Lindholm is an elite player, (other than defensively because he is that) but the Flames still need top line guys to play...on their top lines.

Whether that is Lindholm or someone else, is kind of irrelevant to the discussion though.

Lindholm is a #1 C in the NHL...full stop. No fantasy made up scenarios can change that.

I have zero idea what direction Conroy is taking this club and to be honest I didnt really care for the hire when it happened because this team is at a real tedious point and having experience would be a whole lot more calming.

If they trade Lindholm though, just be aware it may be 5-10 years before they find another guy who is as good and complete as he is at his spot on the roster.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

Lindholm does a lot of the dirty work and takes care of the defensive side of the game so much that his wingers benefit from it. It's not sexy and doesn't show up on the stat sheet. Any coincidence Toffoli had a career year playing on Lindholm's wing? People have to eventually give Lindholm credit instead of saying he sucks without good wingers.

Not a single poster said that.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

He took more draws than Monahan.

Are really going to go back in time and try to argue that the line was Gaudreau - Lindholm - Monahan?

Because it wasn't.

Originally Posted by Jiggy

Lindholm does a lot of the dirty work and takes care of the defensive side of the game so much that his wingers benefit from it. It's not sexy and doesn't show up on the stat sheet. Any coincidence Toffoli had a career year playing on Lindholm's wing? People have to eventually give Lindholm credit instead of saying he sucks without good wingers.

I'm definitely not saying he sucks.

I am definitely saying that paying him $9M to be a 0.8 PPG centre today, with that likely in decline over the next few years, is not a good contract to take on given the state of the team.

[RandyHolt]

I don't get the people saying Lindholm isn't elite or doesn't make his wingers better.

Last year both Gaudreau and Tkachuk had career years (granted Tkachuk improved on it again this year). This year his two most common line mates are Toffoli and Dube and they both have career years as well.

Whether you want to sign him for 8 years and commit to Huberdeau, Kadri and Lindholm as your top 3 paid players is certainly a reasonable debate, but Lindholm is a #1C and will be for a while.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Lindy has been a centre for about 2.3 seasons.

1.3 seasons with Gaudreau and Tkachuk. I think we can roughly put that at 99 games (Monahan played 65 games in 20/21, so Lindy got about 17 games as the centre between Johnny and Chucky when that line was formed). Lindy had 14 points in the finale 17 games of 20/21. That brings him to 96 points in 99 games with those players as a centre.

1 season with...Toffoli and...Dube? I can't even really remember last season. He put up 64 points in 80 games.

179 games being considered "many years now" is absurd. I'm also not saying Lindholm is bad by any stretch, but this contract would run 29-37, and loading a roster with high paid players who entering the non-peak years of their careers is a disaster.

Because he’s only played centre for 2.5 seasons is exactly why I think he’s just going to continue to get better. It seems the style of centre Lindholm is seems to age well. Look at Bergeron and Backlund. Bergeron’ career year came at 33, Backlund’s at 34. Lindholm will probably age very well, and I predict his game is going to rise for at least 5 more years.