2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Sounds like a potential cap nightmare in 4-5 years if all those guys come up at the same time and are playing well.

Would also have quite a few holes to plug in your roster between now and then if you’re sending out 5 players and only taking one (Granlund) back. Perhaps Coronato can take one spot but doesn’t sound like Zary or Piorier are particularly ready from what I’ve heard people close to the team say. Maybe Ruzika? But, as a manager, you also have to be mindful of your minor league teams, do there’s holes there to fill also if the plan is to graduate AHL players who may not even be ready for NHL mins.

So, you’re either looking to fill those spots by trading assets for NHL players or signing UFA’s which is terribly out of fashion.

I’m not against the principle here but I think it’s more realistic to gain a pick, or two, at this years draft and make some other moves over the course of the season for the 2024 draft. You may also need to take money back, specifically this year due to the modest cap increase. That’s fine so long as the returning players have 1-2 years left. You still need an NHL roster, not an NHL/AHL roster.

The dream would be getting those 5 great prospects and worry about who's playing later. That's the nature of a rebuild done correctly.

Since some UFA"s to 1-year deals to fill out the roster if need be, who cares.

It's what Chicago did and look where they are now.

A terrible team that is the envy of most other teams. Bedard, great prospects, many draft picks and cap space galore.

[Angelino]

I have an odd feeling Conroy is in over his head. I genuinely hope I am wrong.

[iloveicedhockey]

Has anyone seen Sec?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Angelino

I have an odd feeling Conroy is over his head. I genuinely hope I am wrong.

That is an odd feeling. Conroy has been in this situation for over a decade and he has some very experienced people he can lean on in Maloney and Nonis.

I see it in here and twitter. Flames fans are clamoring for a rebuild but are so impatient the team hasn’t made a trade 2 days out from the draft. If we get well into free agency and the Flames have done nothing that is the time to be worried.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

That is an odd feeling. Conroy has been in this situation for over a decade and he has some very experienced people he can lean on in Maloney and Nonis.

I see it in here and twitter. Flames fans are clamoring for a rebuild but are so impatient the team hasn’t made a trade 2 days out from the draft. If we get well into free agency and the Flames have done nothing that is the time to be worried.

Out of thanks....but thanks. More sanity needed.

Expectations and viewpoints are reaching extremes (all of which are unlikely IMO).

[Poe969]

It's not that we don't have patience for a rebuild, we're just nervous if it'll happen.

Will they sell high on everyone and rebuild?
Will they resign everyone and say the answers are in thr room?
Will the sign some guys and trade others and keep the team in limbo?

We still have no idea what direction they'll go. Most of us will have patience for a rebuild, but we won't have patience for a "just make it in because anything can happen" style team again.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Someone posted that Lindholm FMV is 8 years @ 6.5 AAV.

We are talking open cheque book here for him? I felt like 8.5 was really pushing it up but if he gets us in the 9s that's a disaster.

Even Johnny, Mathew and Huberdeau didn't take us to the cleaners like that they had offers of 1 million over market price.

ONE person posted that, and they are absolutely out to lunch. FMV is 9ish, or close to it. If, for some reason, he hit the open market, he's get a contract with a 9 handle, almost certainly.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Poe969

It's not that we don't have patience for a rebuild, we're just nervous if it'll happen.

Will they sell high on everyone and rebuild?
Will they resign everyone and say the answers are in thr room?
Will the sign some guys and trade others and keep the team in limbo?

We still have no idea what direction they'll go. Most of us will have patience for a rebuild, but we won't have patience for a "just make it in because anything can happen" style team again.

I expect them to half ass it like always. Have one foot in a retool and one foot in trying to win now. Flames will be back in the middle as always. I really hope I'm wrong but I have very little faith this organization will actually execute this in a way that brings about actual change. We shall see soon enough though.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It’s 100% out of his hands if he (a) doesn’t get any offer from the Flames and (b) the Flames trade him to a team not on his 10 team trade list.

It’s at least partly in his hands otherwise.

Except he and the Flames have talked, and are quite far apart. Which leaves trade, or the Flames moving significantly. He said it's out of his hands, because it is now entirely in Conroy's hands.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

ONE person posted that, and they are absolutely out to lunch. FMV is 9ish, or close to it. If, for some reason, he hit the open market, he's get a contract with a 9 handle, almost certainly.

Larkin being two years younger signed for $8.7M. Horvat signed for $8.5M and his deal kicks in a year younger.

Lindholm should be in the $8-$8.5M range at the max. Anything above that is a premium we’re paying as an undesirable market.

Lindholm’s last 4 seasons:
.8 PPG
1.0 PPG
.84 PPG
.77 PPG

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Poe969

It's not that we don't have patience for a rebuild, we're just nervous if it'll happen.

Will they sell high on everyone and rebuild?
Will they resign everyone and say the answers are in the room?
Will the sign some guys and trade others and keep the team in limbo?

We still have no idea what direction they'll go. Most of us will have patience for a rebuild, but we won't have patience for a "just make it in because anything can happen" style team again.

I think the team is seriously looking at what they can get in a trade for, for example, Lindholm, and what it will cost to sign him, and judging what's best for the team.

We think Calgary is "selling high" but who knows what the market is? The pro is that Calgary has some of the best pieces on the market in a week UFA year, but the con is that most teams are exceptionally cap strapped. The other con is that the 2023 draft is considered so strong that many teams are very reluctant to move those draft picks.

The market for players is seldom static. We just saw that the market for Taylor Hall, a 31 year old player who drives offences and is signed to a pretty reasonable 2-year deal at $6M. Little risk to the team getting him. And he was basically moved for nothing. That market was simply a function of available cap space.

And that decision likely rests with Murray Edwards.

I doubt it rests with Conroy.

[Pickle Juice]

Originally Posted by Angelino

I have an odd feeling Conroy is in over his head. I genuinely hope I am wrong.

He’s got a good support system around him. I have faith! Part of the reason they brought in Dave Nonis, it’s not his first rodeo.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by calf

I hope the whole 'waiting for Lindholm' doesn't hold back other timely moves being made over the next few days.

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

It seems like that right now.

Feels like Johnny 2.0 all over again except he won't be leaving but his deal is holding up other business.

They are saying everything is bases on what Lindholm decides.

What if they have hockey trades and future trades lined up for Hanifin and the draft comes and goes and Lindholm says he won't stay.

Have to do what's best for the franchise.

Do you guys seriously think Conroy is only working on one thing at a time? That he is sitting around with his thumb up his ass, waiting for Lindholm's agent to call him back?

Before making silly posts like this, ask yourself how you would be handling it, if you were in the chair. Then, try to imagine how the actual professional, who earned the job, would probably handle it.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Larkin being two years younger signed for $8.7M. Horvat signed for $8.5M and his deal kicks in a year younger.

Lindholm should be in the $8-$8.5M range at the max. Anything above that is a premium we’re paying as an undesirable market.

Lindholm’s last 4 seasons:
.8 PPG
1.0 PPG
.84 PPG
.77 PPG

And time marches on, and the cap continues to climb.

[Enoch Root]

Keep in mind that Lindholm's agent isn't just talking to Conroy, he is also reaching out to other GMs to see what a contract would look like if he were traded.

These things are never done in isolation, and agents are continually talking to every team, on behalf of all of the players they represent (and their comparables)

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by cannon7

If that's the nightmare, then what's the dream? Drafting more busts to keep the cap pressure down? What a strange take.

Being facetious. Should go without saying, but if it were a problem, it would be a good one.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And time marches on, and the cap continues to climb.

So now you're getting into projecting what the cap will be next year when the salary kicks in, which is an additional risk on the Flames side of things if they're going to exceed what perceived market value is for the player.

Risky.



Also, paying Lindholm for what he was when centering Gaudreau and Tkachuk and not what he's worth away from those players seems like a risk not worth taking. There's not enough evidence to justify 9 years of Lindholm, 8 of which are at an above market value on a contract that will take him until he's 37 years old and at the expense of the assets he would return in a trade.

The logical choice is to trade him.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

So now you're getting into projecting what the cap will be next year when the salary kicks in, which is an additional risk on the Flames side of things if they're going to exceed what perceived market value is for the player.

Risky.



Also, paying Lindholm for what he was when centering Gaudreau and Tkachuk and not what he's worth away from those players seems like a risk not worth taking.

I'm not projecting anything. But if you think that isn't part of the process, then you're delusional. We are already seeing players take short deals because they think the cap will rise. It is literally the agent's job to be on top of that issue.

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Larkin being two years younger signed for $8.7M. Horvat signed for $8.5M and his deal kicks in a year younger.

Lindholm should be in the $8-$8.5M range at the max. Anything above that is a premium we’re paying as an undesirable market.

Lindholm’s last 4 seasons:
.8 PPG
1.0 PPG
.84 PPG
.77 PPG

The issue is Lindholm (and the others) are marching to the beat of a cap that is widely known to be rising dramatically next year. So what was once 8.5 is now over 9. It’s a reasonable inflationary expectation. The issue is, all of the players are looking at it from that perspective.

[calf]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Do you guys seriously think Conroy is only working on one thing at a time? That he is sitting around with his thumb up his ass, waiting for Lindholm's agent to call him back?

Before making silly posts like this, ask yourself how you would be handling it, if you were in the chair. Then, try to imagine how the actual professional, who earned the job, would probably handle it.

Can't speak for Paulie, but that's not quite what I meant - I totally believe that things are being worked on in the background, multiple things at once. What I hope doesn't happen is waiting for whatever happens with Lindholm to happen first before pulling the trigger on other deals, Lindholm needing to be the first domino to fall so-to-speak. I'd hate for good deals to get pulled, or the opportunity to pass.

If it was me and I was waiting for some critical information to get a work product out the door, I'd get my other work completed in the mean time.