Barn Burner: The Boys are Back!! (Boomer, Pinder & Warrener)

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

Just to play devils advocate here
But
Perhaps it’s possible that the new guys couldn’t believe how comfortable the underachieving clique was and that was the long term problem that was trying to be addressed

That seems really hard to believe based on how poorly the new guys played.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

This seemed so obvious, but everyone really wanted to be believe Sutter was the problem.

Weager, Huby and Kadri have been most vocal about wanting a new coach. They also are new players in the room. And they are the players with term and big money.

We know someone in the organization used a bunch of dirty tactics including media leaks and agent leaks to paint Sutter as the bad guy.

We also know there were player vs player issues in the dressing room. There were no issues the season prior, so the problem is clearly some faction of the old players disliking some faction of the new players.

Logically speaking, hiring Maloney to decide what the problem was so stupid because:

1) Maloney and Tre brought in the three new core players and signed them to term. Thus he is biased towards his players.

2) Maloney has an axe to grind against Sutter because he's Tre's buddy and Tre left because of Sutter.


So Maloney chooses Huby, Kadri and Weager over some faction of the old guard. And now some faction of the old guard wants out. Sounds about right

Lol. Don’t kid yourself . Sutter was a huge part of the problem. No owner is paying a coach $8 million if he wasn’t at fault at all.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Nobody really knows what the truth was last season surrounding Sutter and the players. Until actual players come out and start talking about it openly, we probably will never know. I don't see the need to start getting angry at one another and taking it personally when our own theories disagree with those of others.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

That seems really hard to believe based on how poorly the new guys played.

Kadri half the season was alright.

Huberdeau did everything the coach and system wanted same as Weegar.

They didn't play poorly they got put in a position to fail.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Nobody really knows what the truth was last season surrounding Sutter and the players. Until actual players come out and start talking about it openly, we probably will never know. I don't see the need to start getting angry at one another and taking it personally when our own theories disagree with those of others.

What theories?

The coach was fired for mental abuse of players and potential physical contact with one.

No one pays someone 8 million to go away if its a theory.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

What theories?

The coach was fired for mental abuse of players and potential physical contact with one.

No one pays someone 8 million to go away if its a theory.

Well, i am in no way absolving Sutter for whatever part he had. I do think he deserved to be fired. However, you are wrong if you think a coach being fired just shows that he is 'in the wrong'. It is always easier to fire a coach than to trade players. We all know this.


However, that's not the point I think. It isn't whether Sutter was a problem or not. The argument is if he was the ONLY problem. That's it. If you think he was the only problem - well, life's all good now. If you think he wasn't, then of course it is normal to wonder what other problems were there. I subscribe to the notion that it is usually not one single person. Does that mean I think Sutter shouldn't have been dismissed? I 100% think he should have been. Doesn't mean all the problems are fixed.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by dino7c

There are TONS of player with one year left that aren't signing with their current teams


It's pile on the Flames summer

Ground hog day!

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Kadri half the season was alright.

Huberdeau did everything the coach and system wanted same as Weegar.

They didn't play poorly they got put in a position to fail.

They played poorly. Huberdeau and Kadri specifically.

It wasn’t a video game with the Sutter operating the controller.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

They played poorly. Huberdeau and Kadri specifically.

It wasn’t a video game with the Sutter operating the controller.

The played the system to perfection and Sutter said so himself.

He said we had finish you can't finish chances the system doesn't allow you to create.

Wonder why the new regime and coaches keep saying the Sutter was awful and created a terrible atmosphere.

Marc Savard said we need to change the culture.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Well, i am in no way absolving Sutter for whatever part he had. I do think he deserved to be fired. However, you are wrong if you think a coach being fired just shows that he is 'in the wrong'. It is always easier to fire a coach than to trade players. We all know this.


However, that's not the point I think. It isn't whether Sutter was a problem or not. The argument is if he was the ONLY problem. That's it. If you think he was the only problem - well, life's all good now. If you think he wasn't, then of course it is normal to wonder what other problems were there. I subscribe to the notion that it is usually not one single person. Does that mean I think Sutter shouldn't have been dismissed? I 100% think he should have been. Doesn't mean all the problems are fixed.

He wasn't the only problem.

But when articles by Strang and Lebrun are being written about Sutter and his abusive ways it says a lot.

Players need to be held accountable but they are being written off without a game played without that negative person guiding the bench.

Gullfoss Flames addiction and All in a good time are posters who refuse to look at the facts and seem like they are Sutter family members the way the come to defend him and it's embarrassing.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

He wasn't the only problem.

But when articles by Strang and Lebrun are being written about Sutter and his abusive ways it says a lot.

Players need to be held accountable but they are being written off without a game played without that negative person guiding the bench.

Gullfoss Flames addiction and All in a good time are posters who refuse to look at the facts and seem like they are Sutter family members the way the come to defend him and it's embarrassing.

That's funny, because I am glad Sutter is gone. I don't think he was the right guy to be coaching young players coming in and I have no doubt that he made some players miserable. I am just saying that it shouldn't be an excuse for poor performance. If it did cause players to give up and not put in their best efforts, then I think that says as much about the player as it does about the coach.

As for the previous discussion about Huberdeau being high maintenance, I posted stats in other threads and am honestly too lazy to get into it yet again. The gist of it is that any time Huberdeau was put on a top line, his production would drop. His last seasons in Florida, he was a 6th among forwards for 5-on-5 ice time (7th if you include Schwindt, but small sample size). That suggests to me that his match-ups had to be carefully managed in order for him to produce. I think this is probably a big reason when near the end of games when the other teams were trying to hold onto 1 goal leads, Sutter wouldn't put Huberdeau out there. You can say a lot of negative things about Sutter in terms of his personality, but he wasn't a dumb coach.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

He wasn't the only problem.

But when articles by Strang and Lebrun are being written about Sutter and his abusive ways it says a lot.

Players need to be held accountable but they are being written off without a game played without that negative person guiding the bench.

Gullfoss Flames addiction and All in a good time are posters who refuse to look at the facts and seem like they are Sutter family members the way the come to defend him and it's embarrassing.

Why are you calling me out?
At the end of all the drama around Sutter being fired, all I said was that it’s on the players to have fun now
And
It looks like they are

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by RM14

Haha, what a quote!

NSFW!

I love Rhett's takes. Probably too old school for some but you can just hear the experience talking when he was going off the rails how important the locker room is. Get guys who want to be in Calgary. Christ, get some Finnish players, they may not have all the skills (last generation has kind of changed that) but always play for the jersey.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Saqe

I love Rhett's takes. Probably too old school for some but you can just hear the experience talking when he was going off the rails how important the locker room is. Get guys who want to be in Calgary. Christ, get some Finnish players, they may not have all the skills (last generation has kind of changed that) but always play for the jersey.

As he is a former player, I also trust his ability to recognize when players aren’t bringing it every night. Rhett was a warrior of a player and never mailed it in. I think he gets really offended watching other players do it.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

The played the system to perfection and Sutter said so himself.

He said we had finish you can't finish chances the system doesn't allow you to create.

Wonder why the new regime and coaches keep saying the Sutter was awful and created a terrible atmosphere.

Marc Savard said we need to change the culture.

We know how you feel about Sutter, I think most here would agree with you. Interesting to know maybe the new guys were part of the problem too and that may have been an issue in the room. Do Huberdeau and Kadri come across as the go to leaders in the room? Let's hope with a fresh start and new players those 2 guys step will up because last season was very disappointing.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

As he is a former player, I also trust his ability to recognize when players aren’t bringing it every night. Rhett was a warrior of a player and never mailed it in. I think he gets really offended watching other players do it.

Yeah
His insight into issues like this have to hold some clout
I mean, not only was he in the league for a decent amount of time, but his staying power was because of his work ethic. Apparently he was always well respected by his teammates too

[Paulie Walnuts]

What a warrior overpaid 7th defender who came to camp out of shape and boozing.

What a damn warrior and someone to judge effort and talent.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

Why are you calling me out?
At the end of all the drama around Sutter being fired, all I said was that it’s on the players to have fun now
And
It looks like they are

You have dumb takes always have.

Who is having fun? Didn't know we played games since the darkness was fired.

[Burning Beard]

Nm

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

You have dumb takes always have.

Who is having fun? Didn't know we played games since the darkness was fired.

Hey Wally
It’s almost July
Sutter is fired
Why are you still whining?


Move on already
See what happens