Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by zamler

You think so highly of yourself, you're clueless. You are basically you're own circle jerk.

You don't have to be jealous of my intelligence, you can work on that. You can start by reading your wiki link.

[Monahammer]

This is a level of pedantry I just can't tolerate. So you'll accept if we say these countries are democratic socialist republics who incorporate free market capitilism, but the NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY is too socialist for you to support because it's name is scary?

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

You don't have to be jealous of my intelligence,

That's for sure.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by zamler

Derp a derp dumbass garbage repeated again. Finland is not socialist things are far more nuanced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model

Can we use the Nordic model of

This includes a comprehensive welfare state and multi-level collective bargaining[2] based on the economic foundations of social corporatism,[3][4] and a commitment to private ownership within a market-based mixed economy

Or

They all support a universalist welfare state aimed specifically at enhancing individual autonomy and promoting social mobility, with a sizable percentage of the population employed by the public sector (roughly 30% of the work force in areas such as healthcare, education, and government),[8] and a corporatist system with a high percentage of the workforce unionized and involving a tripartite arrangement, where representatives of labour and employers negotiate wages and labour market policy is mediated by the government.[9]

Or

High trade union density and collective bargaining coverage.[23] In 2019, trade union density was 90.7% in Iceland, 67.0% in Denmark, 65.2% in Sweden, 58.8% in Finland, and 50.4% in Norway; in comparison, trade union density was 16.3% in Germany and 9.9% in the United States.[24] Additionally, in 2018, collective bargaining coverage was 90% in Iceland, 88.8% in Finland (2017), 88% in Sweden, 82% in Denmark, and 69% in Norway; in comparison collective bargaining coverage was 54% in Germany and 11.7% in the United States.[25] The lower union density in Norway is mainly explained by the absence of a Ghent system since 1938. In contrast, Denmark, Finland and Sweden all have union-run unemployment funds.[26]
The Nordic countries received the highest ranking for protecting workers rights on the International Trade Union Confederation 2014 Global Rights Index, with Denmark being the only nation to receive a perfect score.[27]
Sweden at 56.6% of GDP, Denmark at 51.7%, and Finland at 48.6% reflect very high public spending.[28] Public expenditure for health and education is significantly higher in Denmark, Norway, and Sweden in comparison to the OECD average.[29]
Overall tax burdens as a percentage of GDP are high, with Denmark at 45.9% and both Finland and Sweden at 44.1%.[30] The Nordic countries have relatively flat tax rates, meaning that even those with medium and low incomes are taxed at relatively high levels.[31][32]

Is this Zamler suggesting that being strongly pro-union and having a robust social safety net and increasing taxes on the middle class and increasing public spending as a % of GDP is not socialist?

If so I wholehardedly agree

[Monahammer]

I understand we need a new freehand word to describe the concept of mass social safety nets applying universally, large tax regimes to redistribute wealth to these programs, and mass employment by government owned or subsidized sectors.

So if we call it Nordicism will everyone be happy? Zamler? I suspect that you're just being a pedantic #######.

Nordicism is fine by me.

[zamler]

Socialist programs do not make a country socialist. You cherry picked the hell of out that wiki entry.

https://www.lifeinnorway.net/scandinavian-socialism/

The simple fact is that Scandinavian countries are not, by any reasonable definition, socialist.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by zamler

Socialist programs do not make a country socialist. You cherry picked the hell of out that wiki entry.

https://www.lifeinnorway.net/scandinavian-socialism/

I wholeheartedly agree with the NDP is not socialist.

Socialism is a political, social, and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production and workers' self-management of enterprises.

If we all agree with this definition of socialism then I agree that the Nordic countries are not socialist. But then let’s also use that definition everywhere.

The Nordic wiki reads like the NDP platform.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I understand we need a new freehand word to describe the concept of mass social safety nets applying universally, large tax regimes to redistribute wealth to these programs, and mass employment by government owned or subsidized sectors.

So if we call it Nordicism will everyone be happy? Zamler? I suspect that you're just being a pedantic #######.

Nordicism is fine by me.

The term used in Zamlers link is cuddly capitalists. I like it.

[photon]

Almost all the conservatives in my life have the "A vote for Liberals/NDP is a vote to become Venezuela, why do you want to be Venezuela?" definition of socialism.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Like Venezuala?

What a knob

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by photon

Almost all the conservatives in my life have the "A vote for Liberals/NDP is a vote to become Venezuela, why do you want to be Venezuela?" definition of socialism.

Do they know that Venezuela isn’t actually socialist?

[zamler]

We're running out of countries that are awesome but not socialist.

[Cappy]

Zamler is really grasping for straws here. This is like MTG calling the US a republic and not a democracy.

When people rail against "socialism" they are referring exactly to the nordic model of universal welfare state.

[Ozy_Flame]

There's something about right-wingers and jumping straight to the Venezuelas, Chinas, Russia's and Cuba's when describing leftist tropes. Always with the authoritarianism.

And no populist love for Vietnam or Laos? Tsk tsk.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Zamler is really grasping for straws here. This is like MTG calling the US a republic and not a democracy.

When people rail against "socialism" they are referring exactly to the nordic model of universal welfare state.

This is a lie.

[surferguy]

Why is Zamlers Avatar Trudeau? Did I miss something?

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by surferguy

Why is Zamlers Avatar Trudeau? Did I miss something?

It is a close-up of him conducting the crescendo in Beethoven's symphony no. 5. He is likely to trying to convey that the best is yet to come.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Major Major

It is a close-up of him conducting the crescendo in Beethoven's symphony no. 5. He is likely to trying to convey that the best is yet to come.

That's his vinegar stroke.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Zamler is really grasping for straws here. This is like MTG calling the US a republic and not a democracy.

When people rail against "socialism" they are referring exactly to the nordic model of universal welfare state.

Have you read literally any of his other takes about anything?

Straws might be the only thing zamler grasps. Little buddy needs to go back to FOI and stick to making his little gifs.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by surferguy

Why is Zamlers Avatar Trudeau? Did I miss something?

You know how people proudly display ##### Trudeau flags? That, but somehow even more embarrassing.