getting a little tired of the crack/meth heads

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Eventually there will be a Bernie Goetz incident that will bring about change. No one wants to deal with the problem so it’s only going to get worse.

The thing I don’t understand is how so many politicians these days have decided decriminalizing or outright supplying drugs to addicts is the way to go.

Imagine if Prohibition was still in effect. Should they have just let people suffer the ill-effects of methanol-laced beverages because it was illegal to obtain safe booze?

[zamler]

Do you think free drugs has things trending in the right direction?

[Wormius]

I don’t know about free drugs, but safe drugs are a step in the right direction if you value everyone’s lives and believe they have something to offer society once they have the wherewithal to deal with whatever trauma took them down that path.

[zamler]

I can agree with that. But it feels like the tip of the iceberg of failed policy and systemic problems in society in general. A tiny band aid.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by zamler

Do you think free drugs has things trending in the right direction?

I don't know if it's the right direction but anyone getting free drugs knows what is in them and isn't robbing people to pay for their addiction.

[Locke]

"Free Drugs" sounds like the Cop's way of suckering people in.

And then they're put in rehab.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by zamler

I can agree with that. But it feels like the tip of the iceberg of failed policy and systemic problems in society in general. A tiny band aid.

Based on my observations around Calgary, I think a large contingent of the affected are First Nations and that the Residential School system is entirely to blame for destroying the lives of those who were forced to attend and the generations after, being raised by badly broken parents who didn’t know how to cope with their trauma. I don’t know how that can be remedied.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Based on my observations around Calgary, I think a large contingent of the affected are First Nations and that the Residential School system is entirely to blame for destroying the lives of those who were forced to attend and the generations after, being raised by badly broken parents who didn’t know how to cope with their trauma. I don’t know how that can be remedied.

I don't want to speak for people who's shoes I haven't walked in, but I think there are a lot of major factors alongside the residential school system that put a lot of indigenous people in a ####ty situation that led to a cycle of broken families.

[Matata]

The scale of the junkie epidemic makes it so harm reduction strategies aren't effective. Anywhere applying aggressive harm-reduction policies will become a magnet for junkies, who will quickly overwhelm that system and any capacity it has for doing good.


Harm reduction looked like a great idea in Scandinavian countries with traditional drugs and a relatively controlled junkie population. Now we're in the era of designer drugs with an ocean of junkies out there.

[CliffFletcher]

This problem isn’t confined to Calgary. Cities across North America are dealing with homeless addicts and the mentally ill in public spaces. Fentanyl and meth have been game changers. Housing affordability compounds the problem.

The public policy response adopted in the last decade of treating it as a public health issue and not a law enforcement issue was well-intentioned. You don’t get people healthy and clean by driving them away with threats of fines that cannot be collected. They’re better served by health services and access to clean drugs.

However, the now evident flaw of that approach is that the great majority on the streets do not want either of those things. They will not voluntarily enter treatment. And while they’ll take clean drugs if they’re offered, they prefer to use them away from public facilities, and they prefer the much stronger (and dangerous) street drugs, because if you want to get wasted the stronger the better.

So voluntary compliance with treatment has proven a failure.

In the meantime, the public has become frightened by the collapse of public order. And no, it’s not mostly comfortable middle-class types who are distressed by disorder. The people most affected by mentally unstable people on transit and in public spaces are the working class who have no choice but to use this public infrastructure. People who work at night, cleaners and food court workers and students who can’t afford cars. Particularly women - who, for reasons that shouldn’t have to be spelled out, are most anxious about being in proximity to deranged men in spaces that are evidently unpoliced, unmonitored, and where nobody will step in to help if you’re assaulted.

The public is not going to just grow accustomed to this level of disorder. They’re not going to become tolerant sophisticates who regard it as part of the rich tapestry of urban life. Public safety is a top issue with voters. Municipal governments across North America who can’t get a grip on this are getting the boot, even in the most progressive cities.

So the era of hands-off treatment of addicts and mentally ill on the streets is drawing to a close. Yes, this is a public health issue. But it’s also a public safety and public order issue. Long-term policies are needed to get at the root of addictions and mental illness. But in the short-term, we need to return to enforcing the law and restoring our transit, sidewalks, and parks to public spaces that the average citizen isn’t frightened to use.

[TheIronMaiden]

Well put Cliff. I want to add context and say that it is a long running problem. News papers from the 1900 talk about opiate abuse. There was a time when the problem wasn't as "public" because addicts were tossed into jail in an endless revolving door that cost money with no true solution.

There is a difficult balance to be struct. Enforcing the law and criminalizing addicts will not end the problem, it will just pay to place it out of sight out of mind. The problem I have with this is it is not long term thinking. It reminds me of teenagers "cleaning their room" by throwing everything from the floor into the closet.

There needs to be a constellation of programs with harm reduction taking a major role. Starting with mental health and addictions training in public schools. and following up with addicts to give them a chance to seek help early. That said, these sort of long term thinking plans are difficult to gain political will and funding for.

[lambeburger]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

That's true, I think, but it is also incumbent on the operator of the service (in this case Calgary Transit) to establish a standard on its own that people can follow. It needs to be very obvious what you do when you see something on the transit system that requires the attention of transit staff or police - i.e., very obvious ads on all trains saying "if you see something, text us at NUMBER, we will respond immediately, also contact us here and here to tell us what's going on". Then take every issue seriously, whether it's people being loud and disruptive for no reason, people doing drugs, drinking, or acting publicly intoxicated, or people being aggressive / safety concerns. They can then triage those issues.

Passengers definitely play a role but you have to give them VERY easy tools to use in order to get them to actually do it. Even direct incentivies, e.g. "free bus pass for a month" rewards for tips that improve the system, are worth considering.

Since 2019, passengers can text 74100 and make a report. I think only recently there's been more of an awareness strategy to let passengers know of the number and increased security to actually respond. I've used it a few times with varying degrees of success.

First couple of times nobody responded to my text to ask follow up questions until a half hour or more later. Typically they'd ask what the person was wearing so that transit cops can identify them. Now I include those descriptors in my initial text.

It was starting to feel like it was a wasted effort to text the 74100 number, but one time recently, they immediately replied and said that they were already aware because of another rider's report. A stop or two later, transit cops got on and ushered the offending individual off the train without any fuss. Knowing that another rider texted it in and actually seeing it result in action by security was encouraging.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

See, I'm aware of that text line, but I wouldn't have been able to tell you from memory that it's 74100. That needs to be posted everywhere all over every transit vehicle.

As for the response time, do you know how long before you texted that the other rider made their report? Because if it was half an hour before you that's a bit less encouraging. But it's good to know they're getting to these things. If they can get it to a point where it's a quick response that will make a significant difference - that of course requires that there be officers in a lot of places at once to be within striking distance of reports.

I also wonder how effective it would be on a bus rather than a C-Train.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Long-term policies are needed to get at the root of addictions and mental illness. But in the short-term, we need to return to enforcing the law and restoring our transit, sidewalks, and parks to public spaces that the average citizen isn’t frightened to use.

I agree with your entire post.

My biggest fear is we see the short-term (and expensive), because that gets votes, and the long-term (cheaper and better) is ignored.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Imagine if Prohibition was still in effect. Should they have just let people suffer the ill-effects of methanol-laced beverages because it was illegal to obtain safe booze?

So you think crystal meth and crack are products governments should be promoting and supplying?

[DiracSpike]

I’m utterly baffled that anyone can look at what’s been going on in the city and what’s happening in cities that are pushing this harm reduction/safe supply garbage even harder like SF Portland and van and not realize that it’s a complete and total failure. It sounded good ten years ago to some egghead academics and the people that make policy decisions purely off of how it makes them feel, but the real world evidence has conclusively proved that it only makes the situation worse. In Europe it’s staggering to see the complete lack of junkies vs seeing roving packs of dozens of them every day in downtown Calgary.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Goriders

So you think crystal meth and crack are products governments should be promoting and supplying?

Does anyone think or believe this?

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

I’m utterly baffled that anyone can look at what’s been going on in the city and what’s happening in cities that are pushing this harm reduction/safe supply garbage even harder like SF Portland and van and not realize that it’s a complete and total failure. It sounded good ten years ago to some egghead academics and the people that make policy decisions purely off of how it makes them feel, but the real world evidence had conclusively proved that it only makes the situation worse. In Europe it’s staggering to see the complete lack of junkies vs seeing roving packs of dozens of them everyday in downtown Calgary.

To be fair, there is not a lack of junkies in Europe, just as many, they're just in prisons.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Does anyone think or believe this?

If you don’t call providing a safe, free, drug supply “promoting” what do you call it?

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

If you don’t call providing a safe, free, drug supply “promoting” what do you call it?

I would call it providing a safe, free, drug supply.

Promotion implies some sort of persuasion.