Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Not sure how all the stats are counted, but I think the massive glaring gap in Canada is dental care and pharmacare. If we publicly funded those 100%, and then looked at the comparison numbers, I'd be curious to see how the picture looked and how much more receptive people would be to adopting some of the more successful European models.

But most European models don't have widespread private insurance either. I think people are getting hung up on compulsory vs. taxpayer funded coverage (we have the latter).

So in Germany, it's true that people pay for their own health insurance. But the rates are based on a % of income, the insurance is compulsory, and there's no actuarial or health condition factors that affect the fees. So it's effectively a tax by another name. That covers about 90% of the population.

And then if you earn over a certain amount, you can opt out of that system and buy private insurance. But by and large, people don't buy it because it's necessarily better or it pushes them to the front of the line; they buy it because it's cheaper (it's a flat rate vs. a % of income), particularly for younger people without kids.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by GGG

And remember service is going to #### right now because institutional change is hard. That part will resolve itself and get better.

We haven’t seen the cost, service, and quality implications of switching to a private monopoly provider yet.

We took a service with competition between public and private and turned it into a monopoly. This is anti market capitalism. If we are going to deal with issues of private delivery of services we need to get the cost, service and quality benefits. The private sector is only better with robust competition.

AHS recently privatized food services in hospitals as well and it has been an unmitigated disaster with companies serving food you would be disgusted to find in prison (I'm not exaggerating), at prices you'd expect at the Calgary Stampede or Saddledome.

The whole problem is that there will never be robust competition here in a private health system that will cater to the have's, leaving the have nots to pick up the scraps of an undermined and depleted public side. Right now service is going to #### because medical professionals are leaving or simply retiring early. It's one thing to deal with the job issues themselves, but when you throw in a system that vilifies the very people (teachers and nurses included) that deliver service, you have nothing left to appeal to those that don't absolutely need to work or need to stay in the province.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

AHS recently privatized food services in hospitals as well and it has been an unmitigated disaster with companies serving food you would be disgusted to find in prison (I'm not exaggerating), at prices you'd expect at the Calgary Stampede or Saddledome.

The whole problem is that there will never be robust competition here in a private health system that will cater to the have's, leaving the have nots to pick up the scraps of an undermined and depleted public side. Right now service is going to #### because medical professionals are leaving or simply retiring early. It's one thing to deal with the job issues themselves, but when you throw in a system that vilifies the very people (teachers and nurses included) that deliver service, you have nothing left to appeal to those that don't absolutely need to work or need to stay in the province.

Except wages I guess and overall affordability compared to most other large centres.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Based on OECD data, Canada already funds significantly more of its healthcare through private insurance and out of pocket spending than most European countries do (other than Switzerland). Here's the % of total health care spending that comes from non-government sources among what are generally considered the best systems in the world:

Canada: 38.1%
UK: 29.4%
Norway: 28.5%
Sweden: 27.9%
Germany: 25.6%
Netherlands: 24.1%
France: 21.7%


That would suggest that we need significantly less private funding if we want to emulate those systems.

Is that primary care? Or does it include dental care, optometry, cosmetic surgery, etc? Because private insurance in Germany, the Netherlands, etc. funds regular surgeries, hospital stays, etc. The areas where Canada has a capacity crisis.

You’re a smart guy, opendoor. Why does Canada have much lower health care capacity than northern European countries? What should we adopt from their systems?

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Except wages I guess and overall affordability compared to most other large centres.

So you really don't have any issues with the privatization of hospital food and blood work services? Do you think those areas are better off now than before?

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

So you really don't have any issues with the privatization of hospital food and blood work services? Do you think those areas are better off now than before?

I honestly don’t really care about it. But I’m not going to be strong armed into voting one way or another because health care babies don’t like the ruling government.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

So you really don't have any issues with the privatization of hospital food and blood work services? Do you think those areas are better off now than before?

Here's a hint, he doesn't give a #### about anyone but himself.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Yoho

I honestly don’t really care about it. But I’m not going to be strong armed into voting one way or another because health care babies don’t like the ruling government.

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Here's a hint, he doesn't give a #### about anyone but himself.

Yea that pretty much sums it up

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Here's a hint, he doesn't give a #### about anyone but himself.

That’s not what I said. I said I’m not going to vote NDP because I’m worried their threats to leave I don’t care if they leave they can do what they want.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Yoho

That’s not what I said. I said I’m not going to vote NDP because I’m worried their threats to leave I don’t care if they leave they can do what they want.

That's not what the question was.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Here's a hint, he doesn't give a #### about anyone but himself.

You care so much about people, it really shows in the way you treat people here.

[Stewie991]

Originally Posted by zamler

You care so much about people, it really shows in the way you treat people here.

He’s Fairly Ignorant!

[Stewie991]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

So you really don't have any issues with the privatization of hospital food and blood work services? Do you think those areas are better off now than before?

I find them better offf for blood work. My son was in and out 2 months ago in 15 minutes. I remember 2 years ago for me it was 2-3 hours.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Stewie991

I find them better offf for blood work. My son was in and out 2 months ago in 15 minutes. I remember 2 years ago for me it was 2-3 hours.

So you've got a sample size of 2? Well, that settles it...

[Stewie991]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

So you've got a sample size of 2? Well, that settles it...

Did you see the I? Oh right you don’t care about anybody but yourself!

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by zamler

You care so much about people, it really shows in the way you treat people here.

I'm just a mirror. People voting for a horrible excuse for a human, or not getting vaccinated is their choice. I'm super sorry the reality they choose is so ugly. But there it is.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Stewie991

Did you see the I? Oh right you don’t care about anybody but yourself!

Just pointing out your anecdote is meaningless, because it doesn't match reality.


Have I been in and out in 15 minutes since Dynalife. Ya, once. The other 5 times have been painfully slow. And finding an appointment within a month is near impossible.

[Stewie991]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'm just a mirror. People voting for a horrible excuse for a human, or not getting vaccinated is their choice. I'm super sorry the reality they choose is so ugly. But there it is.

You should choose to look at the Reflection of the mirror more often!

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Stewie991

You should choose to look at the Reflection of the mirror more often!

I do, it's a gorgeous pickle.

On a roll tonight, eh?

[Stewie991]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I do, it's a gorgeous pickle.

On a roll tonight, eh?

Nope. I have Ball at 6, hopefully no Rolls!!