[GT] Alberta Votes 2023.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by pepper24

It was over when they got Todd Hirsch involved and knew that would hurt them in Calgary. The backlash from the firework debacle didn't help either.

No. That's not what did them in. How the latter is even an NDP issue is beyond ridiculous.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by pepper24

Glad the UPC won and best choice IMO. Alberta is a conservative province and will always be one.

NDP had an uphill battle not campaigning on their record when in office and instead going after Danielle Smith.

It was over when they got Todd Hirsch involved and knew that would hurt them in Calgary. The backlash from the firework debacle didn't help either.

I agree that absolutely anything painted as 'left wing' was going to be laid at the feet of the NDP. It always will be. They can take on the platform of the Solidarity Party and they will always be the poster child for left-wing nutism by a large swath of the Alberta population.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I mean if you want to play dumb and pretend they weren't attack ads, go nuts, but the point is that they had very little messaging that spoke to their own vision or goals. It was 99% focused on Smith.

Not that the UCP ads were any better...maybe even worse. I didn't particularly find any of the party's messaging particularly inspiring. But hey, I'm no political strategist.

Can you really trust Danielle Smith?

Can we really afford Rachel Notley?

Basically both campaigns in one sentence.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Kim Siever, reasonable person
https://globalnews.ca/news/8887330/c...e-pride-month/

This site has nothing to do with Net +/- doctors in the province.... Many of the stories also go back to the provinces/ doctors compensation disagreements and resignations and notices were retracted. I know the doctor shortage is a crisis in the province, but if someone is looking for incomplete information, Kim does a great job!! This is the equivalent of referencing the Western Standard.

Are lies in there? It may be outdated an incomplete, and not very useful. But it is not at all fair to put a person blog tracking these things in anything close to the same realm of misinformation as WS. You should feel bad for even pretending that is the case. But then to also impugn his character because he painted his house in rainbow colours and handed out Skittles? That's just pathetic and I'm embarrassed for you.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Can you really trust Danielle Smith?

Can we really afford Rachel Notley?

Basically both campaigns in one sentence.

The thing with this was fear mongering over a PST. If people only used their brains and thought "for 3% of my discretionary spending we could fund health care, solve homelessness and rehabilitate addicts." But no, we (I!!!) cannot afford that, instead they fell for referendums to increase taxes....

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Wouldn't you wait to see if those things do actually deteriorate before deciding to leave?

Where is your family located?

I feel like there's a lot of reasons people choose to live where they do, but the government in question is usually not really one of them. It's like when Trump won the Presidency, lots of sabre rattling from Americans about moving to Canada, is there any data that there was a large influx of them moving up here when that happened?

Quality of life in Alberta is still extraordinary. Plus, Alberta needs moderates like you to stay, not leave.

a. They've already deteriorated. Kenney was bad, Smith is worse.

b. It doesn't really matter but I live in Springbank. I have a NDP MLA, to the dismay of my rancher neighbors.

c. My quality of life is fine, because I'm relatively well-off, and don't fall into any group targeted by TBA types. That's not really the point though. Quality of life IS going to be affected because it has already been affected some (look at pandemic response and the nuts in the street) and it's only going to be worse under Smith. Education and health care are going to suffer. Services will be cut to make up for tax revenue loss, pet projects like unnecessary police forces and pure grift ops (War Room/advisory groups).

d. Moving provinces is a lot different than leaving the country. For me it would be very very easy to do if I decide to, since I own property elsewhere. The bigger problem is that most people who would want to leave can't do so financially. Someone who's AISH is cut isn't moving to BC. They can't afford to move. Others are dependent on a job and can't quit in the hopes of a new one elsewhere.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by pepper24

Glad the UPC won and best choice IMO. Alberta is a conservative province and will always be one.

NDP had an uphill battle not campaigning on their record when in office and instead going after Danielle Smith.

It was over when they got Todd Hirsch involved and knew that would hurt them in Calgary. The backlash from the firework debacle didn't help either.

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Wait what?!!?

I'm also confused. Hirsch is not known to rank and file voters and those who do know who he is don't think he's some sort of a left wing nut. He's an economist who was with ATB for years and who makes (usually accurate) forecasts. He speaks at a ton of business events. He's a credible guy, even if someone has a different opinion on policy.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

The thing with this was fear mongering over a PST. If people only used their brains and thought "for 3% of my discretionary spending we could fund health care, solve homelessness and rehabilitate addicts." But no, we (I!!!) cannot afford that, instead they fell for referendums to increase taxes....

Ah yes throw more money at problems that always works ! If you truely believe 3% would solve homelessness , fix health care and solve the addiction problem you are the one without a brain

A lot of people would say start at 3% of my discretionary income , and see nothing change other then giving a lot of middle management in government a 3% raise. And these people won’t vote for a PST because they have zero faith the government will use the money efficiently

This is where NDP needed to do a better job in the campaign and show how they would make these changes

We also need to change the overall thinking that the problems can just be solved by throwing more money at it .

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by Muta

Not sure who albertaworker.ca is, but here's a site tracking notices of doctor/office closures/departures in Alberta. Updated as recently as today:

https://albertaworker.ca/news/a-list...g-doctor-care/

From College of Physicians and Surgeons of Alberta:

"At the end of December 2022 there were 11407 physicians registered on the inprovince registers. This figure reflects an increase of 61 from the last quarter,
and an increase of 254 from the same period in 2021."

https://cpsa.ca/wp-content/uploads/2...rly-Report.pdf

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I'm also confused. Hirsch is not known to rank and file voters and those who do know who he is don't think he's some sort of a left wing nut. He's an economist who was with ATB for years and who makes (usually accurate) forecasts. He speaks at a ton of business events. He's a credible guy, even if someone has a different opinion on policy.

Corporate tax hike

[blender]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Not for long, and it should have been included earlier this year:

https://www.camh.ca/en/camh-news-and...l-illness-faqs

And yes, you did minimize his potential mental health issues. You cannot discredit or patronize people's issues if they are in crisis. And it's extremely hard to tell over a computer. These sort of things - whether being flippant or not - need tact and understanding. You don't know what could really be going on in that poster's real life.

I would argue that minimization is in the eye of the beholder, especially on social media. Of course I don't know if he's being serious or not, or if he really is considering suicide. I can certainly guess that he is not, based in numerous clues in his posts, and the nature of the topic being discussed, and based on that guess I can go ahead and write a response. It's odd that this is an issue of me not being sensitive enough on a site that has a "suicide booth" gif in regular rotation after Flames losses.
It's not like I'm bullying him or have an axe to grind. I interpreted his post as melodramatic exaggeration and responded in kind (pretty lighthearted, too).

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by pepper24

Corporate tax hike

Yes, we should tax oil giants more for the privilege of extracting our natural resources.

We should have the most accessible and cutting edge healthcare in the world with world class infrastructure... but we don't. And conservatives have been in charge here since Christ was a cowboy.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by pepper24

Corporate tax hike

Small Business tax reduction

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

I'm not sure I agree.

Alberta has always been a right-leaning province, firstly due to our rural roots and then largely because our energy sector aligned moreso with conservative values than liberal ones. Only once in half a century has Alberta voted for the non-right wing party and almost immediately there was buyers remorse from many. The ANDP, which in any other province would be seen as centrist or even slightly right-leaning, have the stain of being the 'not conservative option' in Alberta and so will always have an uphill battle. It's similar to how many US states almost always vote blue or red and there are only a handful of states that actually decide presidential elections. I don't think people in Alberta have gotten worse, I just think most voters don't make rational choices but instead go with their 'team'. So, I don't think the wingbats of the UCP necessarily represent most Albertans. I think most Albertans wouldn't classify themselves as libertarian anti-vaxers. They just don't pay close enough attention or they fall prey to the lies and propaganda and bumper-sticker politics of right-wing populism.

The western world has seen some pretty serious swings over to the far-right populism in the past. The US, for most of it's history, was a de facto fascist democracy. Nixon was as bad or worse than DeSantis and possibly even Trump. Canada was not much better until well into the 20th century. Generally, there's been a steady line of progress in the western world towards human rights, social programs and other "left" values, even if occasionally, we take a backward step.

There will always be the Danielle Smith's of the world: career politicians who are stupid enough to believe in a cynical ideology that simply doesn't fit human reality, but are charismatic enough to weasel their way up the ladder. The first line of defense against these people are the moderate conservatives, and usually they are pretty good at weeding out the wingbats, relatively speaking. But the political pendulum is always swinging and the reactionary rats will find a gap to exploit. At that point, it's up to the general populace to check them. But even then, there will be times, less frequently than with moderate conservatives, that the extremists will find their way through to the top of the political pyramid. Danielle Smith and the Take Back Alberta cretins, through perseverance, planning and good fortune found their moment. Fortunately, the Alberta Premier doesn't have exclusive power in this jurisdiction (unless she gets her way with the Police and pensions) and there are federal checks and balances as well as the rule of law. But even so, now we must ensure that we hold this government to account while also encouraging new centrist leaders to step up. Albertans are the same as people everywhere else; we care about others but are also primarily invested in our self-interest. At some point, it will be clear, even to many of those that may now support the libertarian anti-vaxxer in-office*, that she and her ilk are not good for the people of Alberta.

*May not apply to the Yoho's of the world

There is a huge difference between Lougheed conservatism / Klein conservatism / Prentice conservatism and Smith/TBA conservatism. They aren't the same, regardless of the branding.

As Danielle Smith herself previously postulated, Notley is the embodiment of Lougheedism. To see that get rejected because some other party has the name, or the fact that another party is more right wing, is inexcusable.

But fair point, conservative populism can #### right off

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

The thing with this was fear mongering over a PST. If people only used their brains and thought "for 3% of my discretionary spending we could fund health care, solve homelessness and rehabilitate addicts." But no, we (I!!!) cannot afford that, instead they fell for referendums to increase taxes....

Denmark spends 11% of GDP on healthcare they have what most consider the best system. How does that compare to your "3% of my discretionary spending" exactly?

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Small Business tax reduction

I like that. Even better if they did small business tax reduction and kept corporate tax rates the same.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Muta

Not sure who albertaworker.ca is, but here's a site tracking notices of doctor/office closures/departures in Alberta. Updated as recently as today:

https://albertaworker.ca/news/a-list...g-doctor-care/

Boyle
A doctor in the community of Boyle is leaving in June 2021, returning to South Africa, which is where he is originally from.

Jesus Christ, who picks South Africa over Alberta, things must be dire.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I’d say right now only around 52% of the voting public is conservative.

52% are Conservative. I would guess the number of actual conservatives in this province are far less.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by zamler

Denmark spends 11% of GDP on healthcare they have what most consider the best system. How does that compare to your "3% of my discretionary spending" exactly?

Denmark's spending also only has 1.6% GDP from private health spending and Canada has 3% of the health spending from Private.. maybe if we had more public dollars used in healthcare and less private dollars we could have healthcare as good as them.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Jesus Christ, who picks South Africa over Alberta, things must be dire.

I would guess he's from South Africa already? Many small town doctors were south african when i was growing up