Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by eddly

While I just started posting in this thread, there is an overall tone from many posters here (I have been lurking throughout the campaign and prior) that if you don't vote NDP, you are stupid (or at least clueless in regards to politics and what would be best for Alberta). I appreciate your post and others, but the reality is that the majority here will not agree with my claim that I am politically aware unless I vote NDP.

Well if your question is, 'what will happen if they raise corporate tax rates,' then that is kind of a clueless question. The province will get more money and we'll still have the lowest provincial tax rate in the country. The one we had before ucp lowered it. That's what will happen. It's totally not mysterious.

I say that as a business owner who literally pays my monthly tax installment manually for my business. It's unnecessarily low. Plus, you're only taxed on profit...you know that, right? Like, it's not as though if you aren't making money the province will take anything from you.

If we want education and healthcare we need to pay for it. That requires a rational tax rate, which ucp is too spineless and stupid to institute.

[Two Fivenagame]

I wish I was only taxed on my "profits".

[eddly]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

If the ndp are targeting the improvement of uour particular industry, would it not be in your self interest to vote ndp?

I mean they are negatively targeting the industry that I am in (not oil&gas). Their actions while in power previously had partial influence on my job loss. We had two straight years of horrific losses which I would say was at least 15 to 20% due to the NDP.

All good though, thankfully I was able to get a better job a little over a month later... but the stress was significant. I wasn't the only one that lost their job during the NDP's time in power.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Two Fivenagame

I wish I was only taxed on my "profits".

You are.

[eddly]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Well if your question is, 'what will happen if they raise corporate tax rates,' then that is kind of a clueless question. The province will get more money and we'll still have the lowest provincial tax rate in the country. The one we had before ucp lowered it. That's what will happen. It's totally not mysterious.

I say that as a business owner who literally pays my monthly tax installment manually for my business. It's unnecessarily low. Plus, you're only taxed on profit...you know that, right? Like, it's not as though if you aren't making money the province will take anything from you.

If we want education and healthcare we need to pay for it. That requires a rational tax rate, which ucp is too spineless and stupid to institute.

I am an accountant, I have some understanding. If corporate taxes are raised, how high can they be raised before companies will need to cut jobs? Will companies consider relocating head offices to another province? How high will she raise them? What is the sweet spot where there will be minimal negative impacts? I guess I am just too analytical, I want to see her analysis of why she thinks it will be OK... what is the cost vs benefit analysis?

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by eddly

Yes my young adult children are voting NDP because they believe it will have a better effect on their future and because certain social issues have been politicalized. I agree on the social issues, but I don't see any evidence that the NDP will be able to improve their futures economically, at least not as much as the NDP is promising.

Could the NDP or UCP cripple my future? Well, I did lose my job when Notley was in power last. No, I don't work in Oil and Gas, but the damage done to O&G trickles down to many industries. I'm not bitter about the job loss as I was able to recover pretty fast and am in a better spot now. Her current campaign is specifically targeting the industry that I am in now as well.

My parents are voting UCP and my adult children are voting NDP. Really shows the generational differences. I can relate to both I guess. Should I vote UCP to please my parents? or vote NDP to please my children?

I think there are some other angles for you to consider here...

Competency
Experience
Trust worthiness
What explanation do your parents have for voting ucp? What explanation do your kids have for their preference?

But if you can't bring yourself to see that the NDP are pretty clearly better and that not voting is even less desirable than voting for the least of bad options, ask yourself this...

What do you want?

If you want a sensible, boring conservative party back that you are not ashamed to vote for and hasn't been hijacked by bozos, VOTE NDP FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. Send this crackpot back to the "I'm not in on the joke radio network" and get your party back. No, you won't easily form government every time for decades anymore. No party should. It's bad for a place and most democracies world wide figured that out a while ago. Who cares? Sometimes you'll win, sometimes you'll lose, the province will tick on and when elections come up you can proudly stuff a ballot for someone who is not a clown.

[Two Fivenagame]

Originally Posted by Sliver

You are.

Not really.

[eddly]

Originally Posted by Major Major

I think there are some other angles for you to consider here...

Competency
Experience
Trust worthiness
What explanation do your parents have for voting ucp? What explanation do your kids have for their preference?

But if you can't bring yourself to see that the NDP are pretty clearly better and that not voting is even less desirable than voting for the least of bad options, ask yourself this...

What do you want?

If you want a sensible, boring conservative party back that you are not ashamed to vote for and hasn't been hijacked by bozos, VOTE NDP FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. Send this crackpot back to the "I'm not in on the joke radio network" and get your party back. No, you won't easily form government every time for decades anymore. No party should. It's bad for a place and most democracies world wide figured that out a while ago. Who cares? Sometimes you'll win, sometimes you'll lose, the province will tick on and when elections come up you can proudly stuff a ballot for someone who is not a clown.

Good post.

How did you reach the decision that Rachel Notley could be trusted? How did she earn your trust? Were you happy with what her party delivered while she was previously in power?

My parents are voting UCP due to their religious beliefs which I don't share. I discussed my undecidedness with my parents. They suggested I should pray about it. Through prayer I would know that I should vote for the UCP apparently.

The critical issues for my young adult children relate to social issues and education funding. I can definitely get on board with those issues, but I don't agree with how the NDP proposes to fund everything. And... the NDP could hurt my current employer... we rely on a lot of government funding... I don't know if the NDP will support the programs that the UCP has created to support my employer. I don't really want to be out of a job again.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by eddly

I am an accountant, I have some understanding. If corporate taxes are raised, how high can they be raised before companies will need to cut jobs? Will companies consider relocating head offices to another province? How high will she raise them? What is the sweet spot where there will be minimal negative impacts? I guess I am just too analytical, I want to see her analysis of why she thinks it will be OK... what is the cost vs benefit analysis?

https://globalnews.ca/news/9718689/a...ndp-tax-plans/

Guy. You claimed to be plugged in and you keep asking questions with basic answers that are really easy to find. I'll leave you to it after this. You're wasting my time.

NDP is raising the corporate tax rate three percentage points. There isn't a lower provincial rate in all of Canada even with the increase

[Flames0910]

Originally Posted by eddly

This is just a few of the issues on my mind.

I'll endeavour to answer these as honestly as possible (though I'm not an economist or politician, just an engaged citizen on a hockey message board).

If you find the answers tolerable, I sincerely hope that you and your wife will reconsider voting — I personally do not want "the party that calls transgender children poo poo" anywhere near office.

I can't fully support the NDP's economic direction. What the NDP is proposing is simplistic from what I have seen. Raise corporate taxes. Lower insurance rates.

The NDP have a costed platform that was developed in consultation with experts and ultimately endorsed by Todd Hirsch, the well-respected, non-partisan ATB Financial economist.

They're raising corporate taxes by 3% -- they will be a lower level than they were before Jason Kenney took government, and still the lowest in the country. This is a thoughtful and prudent move, not an ill-considered plan.

More importantly, they are cutting the small business rate to zero. Unlike large corporations, small businesses were hit hardest by covid, so this should help stimulate this sector of the economy and encourage recovery. Of course, the idea is that small businesses grow into large businesses that can employ more people and contribute more taxes.

What happens if corporate taxes are raised?

What would happen if the GST went up by 3%? You'd still need to buy groceries. Most businesses will continue to operate as normal, but the government will receive billions more in revenue (which can be used to fund services like healthcare, education, and small business programs).

Yes there might be some small losses if a few business decide to leave or not invest, but we've seen a similar rate just 4 years ago and corporations weren't clamouring for a lower corporate tax rate before Jason Kenney. And yes, the projections could even be wrong, but the NDP's budget has extra room in it in case their calculations are off -- again, it's a thoughtful and prudent plan (unlike the UCP's initial slash which was reckless and had serious implications on both healthcare and education).

Why are insurance rates high? What happens if they are lowered?

Insurance rates are high because Jason Kenney and the UCP lifted the cap that was previously in place, so private companies are taking advantage.

They're also high because Alberta has had more than its fair share of natural disasters in the last decade so insurance companies are trying to make that money back while preparing for the next disaster.

We had a cap on insurance rates before. It's a good balance that allows private industry to operate, while also ensuring people don't get taken advantage of. Removing the cap was dumb because it cost taxpayers a lot of money and the province got nothing in return. Bringing it back is smart.

NDP's playbook is to tax the rich into submission with the expectation that they will gladly take it.

I'm sorry but I completely disagree with this. A 3% increase in corporate taxes is not taxing anybody into submission. We live in a time when corporate profits are running amock, where some corporations are larger than countries! Our tax rate will still be the lowest in the country, along with no PST and all the other benefits of the so-called Alberta advantage.

Other than this increase, the NDP do not seem to be introducing any new taxes. And I wouldn't expect them to in the future either -- they know it would be political suicide.

This boom in oil & gas won't last forever, and we need to find a way to balance the books without being entirely reliant on oil royalties. The UCP are tying their economic plan to high oil prices and paying out lots of dollars now to win over voters, but the next drop will inevitably lead to cuts in critical services like healthcare and education because they're not planning ahead.

We like to think that conservative governments are good on the economy, and they talk a good game about prioritizing it. But the record doesn't back them up:

Toby Sanger, the former executive director of Canadians for Tax Fairness, tried to underscore this reality back in 2015. He gathered data on provincial and federal governments and compared the performance of the NDP to the Liberals and Conservatives. As it turned out, real wage growth was stronger under NDP governments, averaging 0.89 per cent annually after inflation compared to 0.66 per cent under Conservative ones and 0.63 percent under Liberal ones. At the provincial level, NDP governments also spent less, ran fewer and smaller deficits and saw higher corporate profit growth.

Source: https://www.nationalobserver.com/202...-bad-you-think

[Monahammer]

I’m thinking eddly is just another Slava. Pretends to be middle but is actually someone desperately trying to justify their continued UCP vote however possible. Looking for any available cover.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Two Fivenagame

Not really.

In my business sometimes we have months where I lose money. That is, we'll work an entire month and our net can be, like, - $15,000. It cost me money to have a business that month.

When we have a bad month, my people still get paid and they're taxed on their paycheque. They don't pitch in to help me cover the loss.

The government doesn't expect me to pay money on a loss. They're not the mafia.

Think of yourself as a little business of one guy. You gross X amount per month. You're taxed on that gross. Then you're left with your profit. You don't have months where your employer takes money out of your bank.

You are only taxed on the money you make. Just like a business. It's not some coo where businesses are only taxed on profit. How else would it work?

[eddly]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I’m thinking eddly is just another Slava. Pretends to be middle but is actually someone desperately trying to justify their continued UCP vote however possible. Looking for any available cover.

Why attack? It isn’t necessary. There is no way I am voting UCP.

Thank you everyone regarding your answers to my questions. You are pushing me more to the NDP. I appreciate the dialogue.

I will admit that I didn’t have the specifics on the corporate tax rate increase.

[surferguy]

Originally Posted by eddly

While I just started posting in this thread, there is an overall tone from many posters here (I have been lurking throughout the campaign and prior) that if you don't vote NDP, you are stupid (or at least clueless in regards to politics and what would be best for Alberta). I appreciate your post and others, but the reality is that the majority here will not agree with my claim that I am politically aware unless I vote NDP.

There will be a few drive bys for sure but as I see above you are willing to ask a real question about your hesitations.

The first thing about insurance being more expensive: from my understanding the UCP lifted the caps on what the companies could charge. I don’t know the details exactly (and somebody will come in and provide them) but that made insurance more expensive upon renewals.

I believe the NDP are planning on putting the caps back in place ***citation needed***

I am hoping others will be able to speak further and more in depth on the nuances at play here. There are better educated posters here.

I cannot speak to the corporate tax rates, but I am pretty sure the NDP will be eliminating them entirely for small companies under a certain threshold.

Are you a business owner? Does raising the tax rate 3% completely sewer your company/business/industry? If yes, that is understandable and I can empathize.

That said, it’s still the lowest in Canada and we don’t have a PST, these taxes need to be collected (iMO) to actually pay for the things we need in this province.

I strongly feel that if the UCP are elected they will further wreck our health care and make it more expensive for us personally due to parts being privatized. “We won’t have to pay” but we will want to because the line up to get the free service is 3 yrs long. Now add in all the other nickel and dime things along the way (the park pass and insurance cap lifting are perfect examples).

So I guess my question to you: Is the increased amount you will pay in raised corporate taxes going to outweigh the amount you will have to potentially pay for things if the UCP win?

Now do the same calculation but you just had an aneurism and you have to pay a small amount for every Dr visit.

I don’t want to be disingenuous and provide a bunch of boogie man scenarios but TO ME that is the trade off. It might not happen of course but the leaders of that party are openly discussing this.

Is not allowing a 3% tax increase worth it?

[Flames0910]

Why attack? It isn’t necessary. There is no way I am voting UCP.

People are being defensive because the UCP has an army of sockpuppet accounts (similar to what Russia did during Trump's first campaign) on social media platforms asking "innocent questions" and sharing misinformation to deter casual readers. There's even one in this thread -- we call him Yoho.

I hope you will take the information folks are sharing here, discuss it with your wife and consider whether you trust us all enough to share a vote or two for Rachel Notley. She's put together a good, responsible team and I'm confident they will do a good job of making government boring again. (boring in a good way, because they're not jumping from self-created crisis to self-created crisis)

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by eddly

I am an accountant, I have some understanding. If corporate taxes are raised, how high can they be raised before companies will need to cut jobs? Will companies consider relocating head offices to another province? How high will she raise them? What is the sweet spot where there will be minimal negative impacts? I guess I am just too analytical, I want to see her analysis of why she thinks it will be OK... what is the cost vs benefit analysis?

How many companies took the money they saved on taxes and invested it in automating and cutting jobs. A lot of the big oil companies did.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Ashartus

Calgary West seems to be considered a pretty safe UCP riding but I've seen way more NPD than UCP signs in people's yards, maybe the communities I drive through aren't reflective of the riding as a whole but I'm hoping that sanity is more widespread than the experts and pollsters think.

Honestly UCPers are so bat#### crazy it's not surprising a lot of people don't want to put up NDP signs...I have a feeling there is a lot of support waiting in the weeds.

NDP stuff gets vandalized around me but it just makes me want to vote for them more.

Even if people don't love the NDP we need to push the UPC back to reality and not encourage this Trump wanna be bull####

Quit letting these clowns scare you into voting for them...grow a pair

NDP ain't taking your jerb I can assure you

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

How many companies took the money they saved on taxes and invested it in automating and cutting jobs. A lot of the big oil companies did.

Don't forget the share buybacks so they didnt have to pay dividends to the employees and other shareholders.

[surferguy]

The gravity of this election is real.

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by eddly

No, they are not equal, but they both can have a negative impact on Albertans.

Should I vote based on one issue? There are many issues to consider.

The particular issue you raise here is the most important to me to the point where for the first time in my life I have flirted with the idea of voting NDP.

When the issue is "should I consider this group of people as sub-human or not"? - then YES