[News] Kyle Dubas won't return as Leafs GM

[liamenator]

Dubas really misplayed this. He put it in Shanahan's mind that he wasn't all in, then strung him along and asked for a bigger pile, and Shanahan said: see you later.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by browna

It's plausible. Not sure about Dubas interest here but it's also likely that a lot of these things are known well in advance behind the scenes, especially a guy like Treliving who is very connected.

I think Treliving knew a while ago (months) he'd be seriously considered to be up for the Leafs job, and that anything less then a Leafs cup win would have Dubas moving on...likely Dubas knew that too. Combined with a situation coach wise that he was never really 100% aligned with here, he made his decision that he wasn't going to be here a while ago too.

The above is why I think there is more to why owners are not releasing him for interviews as there is more to the story. I think Treliving still left the option open until he decided to close the door.

Treliving said he stood pat at the trade deadline because of where the team was, but there may have been more. Hard to bring in new players when you and your coach are not comunicating. Then you have the group of players wanting out. To add, if Treliving already knew he might be leaving then there is that, So the owners, or management team close to the situation may see things differently. I am not debating Treliving's decision/s, just pointing out that it may not be uncommon knowledge to those other than Treliving that there may have been some other options, interferences that mitigated how these things played out.

[bluejays]

Yeah, Dubas tried playing poker probably to squeeze out more. Sounds weasly considering he had all year to do it. Didn't see this coming. Sounds like Shanahan had little choice.

[liamenator]

Not necessarily relevant, but worth noting that Shanahan and Edwards are close -- the latter almost convinced him to come here as POHO before he took the Toronto job.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

Not getting the love affair some fans have with Dubas, what exactly has he done?

Well the team he built has had a ton of regular season success:

111 points
115 points
77 points (112 point pace)
81 points (94 point pace)
100 points
105 points

Sure, the playoff success hasn’t been there but to me that is more on the players not showing up. Doesn’t help when you have to face Tampa in the first round right in the middle of their dynasty years.

His age is also appealing. That was his first ever GM stint and in a pressure cooker none the less. I think it’s reasonable to assume he will become a better manager with the more experience he accumulates.

Hiring these days is all about looking forward. Past success is important too, but not everything is “well what has he accomplished?” Jay Feaster, Peter Chiarelli, and Ken Holland all have cups- I doubt any fans want the Flames to hire any of those guys.

[bluejays]

I didn't expect this type of press conference. Dubas pulled a millennial card and tried fastracking his career by putting the screws to Shanahan. It really puts the guy in a different light.

[HighLifeMan]

Pretty silly that you had two sides here who ultimately wanted the same thing yet couldn't get it done due to a lack of communication and by the sounds of things hurt feelings.

[Vinny01]

By all accounts the Dubas-Leafs divorce sounds very similar to the Treliving-Flames one. Steinberg has alluded to Treliving wanting to stay but he was not offered the term/money he wanted and it sounds the same for Dubas.

[SuperMatt18]

At the same time if you are Dubas you are probably wondering what Shanahan is doing that makes him worth $6-7M while you are only worth $4M and probably doing more work.

Don't blame Dubas for wanting full Autonomy either...since there were rumors that him and Shanahan didn't see eye to eye on a lot of it.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

At the same time if you are Dubas you are probably wondering what Shanahan is doing that makes him worth $6-7M while you are only worth $4M and probably doing more work.

Don't blame Dubas for wanting full Autonomy either...since there were rumors that him and Shanahan didn't see eye to eye on a lot of it.

I think it has to be up front though. Shanahan is in charge of the business side of things primarily if memory serves right. Sure he can think he's worth that much but why didn't he make his offer and negotiate earlier in the year? It seems much of this was by design on Dubas' end to get as much as he could out of the situation. On the surface this sounded like a Shanahan problem. But this is firmly Dubas' fault for trying to squeeze out more. Shanahan had no choice but to move on. Dubas slapped him in the face when he gave him his start.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I think it has to be up front though. Shanahan is in charge of the business side of things primarily if memory serves right. Sure he can think he's worth that much but why didn't he make his offer and negotiate earlier in the year? It seems much of this was by design on Dubas' end to get as much as he could out of the situation. On the surface this sounded like a Shanahan problem. But this is firmly Dubas' fault for trying to squeeze out more. Shanahan had no choice but to move on. Dubas slapped him in the face when he gave him his start.

No different than any negotiations. He's the GM in the biggest hockey market in the world where they are paying players $11M+ and they are making boatloads of money. If he thinks that is worth $6-7M then so be it.

You can want to return as GM of the Leafs, while also wanting them to pay you more. And why shouldn't Dubas try to get as much as he could out of the situation.

Shanahan is trying to make himself look good with this press conference, of course he's going to frame himself to be in the right here.

[Ozy_Flame]

LOL $6-7 million, and $4 million and a private jet was not good enough.

Wish I as a guy in my 30's who could make those kinds of demands.

[Vinny01]

Do folks here remember that Shanahan was Edwards original choice for the POHO position that ultimately went to Burke? I believe the deal was Shanahan wanted King’s job and be President on the hockey and business side and that is why he didn’t come here and less than a year later he ended up in Toronto.

[topfiverecords]

Any ideas what the Flames were giving Treliving at the end of his deal?

Is there any other team paying their GM the kind of money Dubas asked for?

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

No different than any negotiations. He's the GM in the biggest hockey market in the world where they are paying players $11M+ and they are making boatloads of money. If he thinks that is worth $6-7M then so be it.

You can want to return as GM of the Leafs, while also wanting them to pay you more. And why shouldn't Dubas try to get as much as he could out of the situation.

Shanahan is trying to make himself look good with this press conference, of course he's going to frame himself to be in the right here.

It's poor negotiation practice from what Shanahan made clear. Shanahan just didn't want anything on MLSE but clearly didn't want to throw Dubas under the bus but read between the lines that his last minute demands also made it clear that the money was actually a sudden change. Anyone can ask but you have to do it ethically. He knew the Leafs were in a tough position and pushed too hard. No doubt he regrets that decision already because Shanahan played his hand and bitchslapped him. I have no doubt his crocodile tears at the press conference was a way of getting public pity in this event.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Sol

Based on what Brad built in Calgary, why would the Leafs think he would be an improvement? He had very little success and after he left, we've heard is how toxic the organization is/was. If that's even true, he hired all the "toxicity" and let it fester.


The leafs have attracted more talent and put a more exciting product on the ice in my opinion. I hate that I had to say that.....

I think one way Brad comes out of this in a good light is there's knowledge that he was handcuffed by Murray Edwards here and he made the best of it.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by bluejays

It's poor negotiation practice from what Shanahan made clear. Shanahan just didn't want anything on MLSE but clearly didn't want to throw Dubas under the bus but read between the lines that his last minute demands also made it clear that the money was actually a sudden change. Anyone can ask but you have to do it ethically. He knew the Leafs were in a tough position and pushed too hard. No doubt he regrets that decision already because Shanahan played his hand and bitchslapped him.

Maybe. Maybe not. You're only getting one side of the story here and are assuming it is true.

I'm guessing it was more like "Let's talk and we can negotiate after the season".

And now as they were negotiating Shanahan didn't like the ask and he moved on. Remember a lot of the market really liked Dubas and wanted him back...so it's Shanahan that has to try to save face here to make it look like it's all Dubas fault.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Any ideas what the Flames were giving Treliving at the end of his deal?

Is there any other team paying their GM the kind of money Dubas asked for?

Not sure what the numbers are/were but the story is that Edwards felt that they had given Treliving a more than fair offer. Treliving still asked for more.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

LOL $6-7 million, and $4 million and a private jet was not good enough.

Wish I as a guy in my 30's who could make those kinds of demands.

Its not like he's superman.. you could do what he did.

Its a bad sign to want to bring a management guy back and then you decide against it because you can't work it out contractually.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Maybe. Maybe not. You're only getting one side of the story here and are assuming it is true.

I'm guessing it was more like "Let's talk and we can negotiate after the season".

And now as they were negotiating Shanahan didn't like the ask and he moved on. Remember a lot of the market really liked Dubas and wanted him back...so it's Shanahan that has to try to save face here to make it look like it's all Dubas fault.

Could be but that's also an assumption. I did think Shanahan was very forthcoming in his timeline of events that makes it hard to side with Dubas here. He thought they came close but he thought (as did I), the longer this goes the scales tip to Dubas holding his feet to the fire. Shanahan didn't have a choice here and decided to cut it off. It must've looked bad with the board when Dubas is doubting his drive with the team. But then wanting more money? I don't get it. It's poor negotiating strategy. Well done by Shanahan.