[News] Kyle Dubas won't return as Leafs GM

[Burning Beard]

I'm in the no thanks to Dubas camp. Guy had Matthews, Marner, Tavares and Nylander and still couldn't get his team past the 2nd round. Also could never find a goalie. Not sure how that's a good resume besides name recognition?

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Treliving hasn't said anything.

Maloney has said he said that...but they also weren't going out there and say "He didn't want to work here anymore for Edwards" (if that was the case).

True - and I'd like to hear from the horses mouth what his line is. I don't believe in being diplomatic for the sake of it. I want to hear what he thought about ownership and their involvement.

[flambers]

Personally I thought the Tavares signing was a big mistake by the Leaf's

They should have went after a dman,

Way to much cap on 4 forwards

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Tavares signing in Toronto was a forgone conclusion whether Dubas was GM or not.

Treliving didn't have the luxury of attracting that level of talent to this market.

Dubas did a mediocre at best job in Toronto and that is being kind.

Almost every year, Treliving signed a prominent free agent on the market.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Treliving hasn't said anything.

Maloney has said he said that...but they also weren't going out there and say "He didn't want to work here anymore for Edwards" (if that was the case).

Can someone remind me of the actual (or somewhat validated speculative) information we have that Treliving specifically didn't want to work for Edwards? Honest question, I miss lots of stuff, or is this just building on the narrative created on here that Edwards wouldn't let him do what he wanted to do?

I just wonder does it have to be that, or was he maybe done after sitting in on exit interviews at the end of the year, half the team he built was asking for trades because they didn't want to play for the coach HE just signed on for an extension. I mean, I get we've spun this, Sutter was an Edwards hire not Treliving, and then Edwards wouldn't let him fire him narrative. But has that come out anywhere actually? Because I could just see after everything he went through last summer, a disappointing year results wise, and then hit the end of the year and have the options of either fire another coach, or trade a bunch of key players again just being enough to go "I'm out, I need a fresh start". Does it have to be, I hate my boss / I can't work for him anymore?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by bluejays

It's a results based org, so it's a fair critique that it didn't work out, but how many people have locked up 4 key core pieces and have all them under 25? Dubas' goaltenders turned out really good when he brought them from nowhere. Not one year did his goaltenders let him down where you attribute the loss to them. Did they steal a series, no...but can you rely on that? I think he's set the team up for success continually. There isn't a better GM out there IMO.

I don't think any were max deals. Matthews was a 5 year, Marner and Nylander 6, who's the 4th young key core piece? Kerfoot was a 4 year deal which bridged him to UFA this year.

Matthews term is the same as Gaudreau, Marner/Nylander the same term as Monahan, Lindholm, Andersson, and Hanifin

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by bluejays

True - and I'd like to hear from the horses mouth what his line is. I don't believe in being diplomatic for the sake of it. I want to hear what he thought about ownership and their involvement.

What's the upside in Tree doing that? How does that help him?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Can someone remind me of the actual (or somewhat validated speculative) information we have that Treliving specifically didn't want to work for Edwards? Honest question, I miss lots of stuff, or is this just building on the narrative created on here that Edwards wouldn't let him do what he wanted to do?

I just wonder does it have to be that, or was he maybe done after sitting in on exit interviews at the end of the year, half the team he built was asking for trades because they didn't want to play for the coach HE just signed on for an extension. I mean, I get we've spun this, Sutter was an Edwards hire not Treliving, and then Edwards wouldn't let him fire him narrative. But has that come out anywhere actually? Because I could just see after everything he went through last summer, a disappointing year results wise, and then hit the end of the year and have the options of either fire another coach, or trade a bunch of key players again just being enough to go "I'm out, I need a fresh start". Does it have to be, I hate my boss / I can't work for him anymore?

The only actual reason ever given by anyone was Maloney saying he was burnt out or words to that effect. I don't think Maloney lies but I also doubt he was setting out everything. So no, there is no actual reporting on it.

[SportsJunky]

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Almost every year, Treliving signed a prominent free agent on the market.

Not a Tavares level talent.

Building through free agency is a fools errand and is a biproduct of the mandate from the top to compete year in, year out in a secondary market.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't think any were max deals. Matthews was a 5 year, Marner and Nylander 6, who's the 4th young key core piece? Kerfoot was a 4 year deal which bridged him to UFA this year.

Matthews term is the same as Gaudreau, Marner/Nylander the same term as Monahan, Lindholm, Andersson, and Hanifin

They weren't max deals, and pardon me, obviously Tavares could be seen as a mistake (as he's the "core 4"). I'd expand it to 5 though as he got Reilly under contract on D.


Dubas stagged his signings enough where they weren't in a tough position to give two players leverage at the same time. I'm firmly in the pro-Dubas camp. He's in that upper cream of GMs if not the best.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by flambers

Personally I thought the Tavares signing was a big mistake by the Leaf's

They should have went after a dman,

Way to much cap on 4 forwards

I also thought it was weird. They had a 1C already. It's like Tavares was available so they couldn't resist.

OTOH there were really no star defencemen available that year. At least not after Carlson extended with the Caps.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by bluejays

They weren't max deals, and pardon me, obviously Tavares could be seen as a mistake (as he's the "core 4"). I'd expand it to 5 though as he got Reilly under contract on D.


Dubas stagged his signings enough where they weren't in a tough position to give two players leverage at the same time. I'm firmly in the pro-Dubas camp. He's in that upper cream of GMs if not the best.

I was confused because you said the 4 core pieces were all under 25.

But people criticize Treliving for not getting max deals when players like Matthews and Marner were getting similar terms (for a lot more money) as Gaudreau, Monahan and Lindholm.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I also thought it was weird. They had a 1C already. It's like Tavares was available so they couldn't resist.

OTOH there were really no star defencemen available that year. At least not after Carlson extended with the Caps.

Well, at one point, it was pretty common for the Stanley Cup champs to have two 1Cs: Sakic-Forsberg, Yzerman-Fedorov, Modano-Nieuwendyk, Crosby-Malkin but it is tough to maintain this with the salary cap.

[Vinny01]

It would be interesting if Shanahan had eyes on Treliving and let Maloney know who also could have eyes for Dubas and both teams grant each other opportunity to an exclusive window to interview the respective candidate before their contracts expire at the end of June. I doubt that is the case but could be plausible

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I was confused because you said the 4 core pieces were all under 25.

But people criticize Treliving for not getting max deals when players like Matthews and Marner were getting similar terms (for a lot more money) as Gaudreau, Monahan and Lindholm.

Personally I don't believe in max deals for anyone save a handful like McKinnon/McDavid/etc (essentially generational players). But I do believe close behind guys like Matthews should be getting high level deals, while Marner/Gaudreaus should be getting 5 years tops. There's a high chance those guys falter later on. Monahan and Lindholm aren't in the same conversation IMO, though Lindholm is a solid two way guy. Treliving was in a tough spot honestly. Tkachuk and Gaudreau were good one year, bad the next. They sulked and showed no leadership one year to the next. How does anyone fault him for not signing those guys? I wish they dealt both early on before it got to that point as to me they showed they were inconsistent and didn't deserve the long term deal here. I know it's hindsight but that goes for players in the future. If you're inconsistent based on effort you should be somewhere else.

[Red_Baron]

Dubas's age should be a factor here. He is likely to get better at his role in the coming years as he gains more experience. His shortfalls need to be seen as learning experiences as he is less likely to be stuck in his ways than someone older. None of his shortcomings at this point of his career concern me.


If he isn't ready for another GM role due to the burnout, I wonder if he'd be willing to accept a lesser role for a year or so to decompress a bit?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Tavares is good compared to the FAs Treliving brought in

They both failed to complete the teams to win that’s why they are both gone

Dubas’ team is in better shape though

this can't be a serious take

JT with his Leafs jammies

[MrMike]

Well at least he doesn't have to be the one to have to trade Matthews and have Leafs fans hate him for the rest of his life.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Well at least he doesn't have to be the one to have to trade Matthews and have Leafs fans hate him for the rest of his life.

The Leafs should just hire Jay Feaster for a year or too. He's the perfect fall guy to lay that onto.