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Old 05-17-2023, 03:32 PM   #261
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No NHL arena. Current arena holds less than 9K.



No land in Scottsdale with suitable zoning and then no one wants it in their backyard.



I seriously doubt the NHL or any other league would want to get into a situation where sovereignty issues have potential to raise their ugly heads and cause problems for security or public safety services. There's a reason why it hasn't been done. The legal ramifications are likely extremely messy.
Somehow there are no sovereignty/safety issues with a whole slew of facilities on the Salt River reserve: golf courses, colleges, MLB practice facilities, shopping centres, hotels, indoor skydiving, a great aquarium.
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Old 05-17-2023, 03:35 PM   #262
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So am I reading things wrong and this arena deal wasn't going to cost the tax payer a single penny? I've seen a few conflicting reports on this.
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Old 05-17-2023, 04:01 PM   #263
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So am I reading things wrong and this arena deal wasn't going to cost the tax payer a single penny? I've seen a few conflicting reports on this.
The main point brought by the opposition to the arena was that while the cost of the buildings were all private funded, the city was giving the Coyotes tax relief and breaks for 30 years. The taxpayers were going to have to pay for all the infrastructure to support those buildings because the city wasn't going to make any tax money off the district.
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Old 05-17-2023, 04:05 PM   #264
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Somehow there are no sovereignty/safety issues with a whole slew of facilities on the Salt River reserve: golf courses, colleges, MLB practice facilities, shopping centres, hotels, indoor skydiving, a great aquarium.
Yes there are. Salt River is a sovereign nation and has their own public safety functions. Salt Lake participates voluntarily with the neighboring municipalities but routinely invokes sovereignty when they want to. Police and fire are not allowed on their lands without permission. Issues with rights to regulate commerce on those lands are also contentious. Just because the Salt River people allow you to come onto their land to spend your money one day doesn't mean they will continue to do that. That's the risk. It's a sovereign nation where they can lock the doors any time they want and you're left twisting in the wind. You equate your personal access to that of governance and conducting business. Very different beasts.
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Old 05-17-2023, 04:16 PM   #265
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Just doesn't make sense that they are trying so damn hard to make it work in the Phoenix area, when you have another mega city in Houston sitting there with no team.

Houston would be a natural rival to Dallas, and hockey in Texas is soaring.
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Old 05-17-2023, 04:20 PM   #266
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It's slightly better because the ice is centered rather than offset like other buildings, but it's still pretty bad...




If they were to move to SLC, the Maverik Center, where the ECHL Grizzlies play, might be the better option for a temporary home. It was built as the main hockey venue for the 2002 Olympics. Although it has a smaller capacity than the Delta Center (10,000 compared to 14,000), it would likely be a better hockey building.
The Maverik Center, in West Valley City, is a nice minor league venue, but, lacks the moneymaking amenities that an NHL "state of the art" arena would have. Its sight-lines are good, but it just has a lower mezzanine and a ring of "luxury" boxes. It seats 12000 for hockey.
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Old 05-17-2023, 04:25 PM   #267
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Yes there are. Salt River is a sovereign nation and has their own public safety functions. Salt Lake participates voluntarily with the neighboring municipalities but routinely invokes sovereignty when they want to. Police and fire are not allowed on their lands without permission. Issues with rights to regulate commerce on those lands are also contentious. Just because the Salt River people allow you to come onto their land to spend your money one day doesn't mean they will continue to do that. That's the risk. It's a sovereign nation where they can lock the doors any time they want and you're left twisting in the wind. You equate your personal access to that of governance and conducting business. Very different beasts.
Dude, I'm well aware they have legal sovereign rights. I'm saying in practice those have not been an issue.
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Old 05-17-2023, 04:49 PM   #268
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Salt Lake City has really been under the radar as far as being a potential relocation city, yet appears to be a favourite.
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Old 05-17-2023, 05:23 PM   #269
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Salt Lake City has really been under the radar as far as being a potential relocation city, yet appears to be a favourite.
SLC Magical Underwears has a nice ring to it.

Go Flams
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Old 05-17-2023, 05:25 PM   #270
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SLC Golden Trumpets
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Old 05-17-2023, 05:26 PM   #271
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fun fact you can't get a speeding ticket on native land on the 101 near taking stick
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Old 05-17-2023, 06:27 PM   #272
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Letter sent to season ticket holders

https://twitter.com/user/status/1658979891495436288
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Old 05-17-2023, 06:42 PM   #273
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It's going to be Pioneers or something if they move to SLC.

Dumb question: do they sell beer at Jazz games?
Beer, wine, and seltzers. No liquor.
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Old 05-17-2023, 06:57 PM   #274
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Manholes on the KC train. Let's gooo

https://twitter.com/user/status/1658977658665938945
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Old 05-17-2023, 07:00 PM   #275
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Letter sent to season ticket holders

https://twitter.com/user/status/1658979891495436288
I like their resolve but I can't see the other teams waiting on this any longer while losing millions of dollars in revenue sharing. They will be pressuring Bettman to end this fiasco..
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Old 05-17-2023, 07:55 PM   #276
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I guess more just for optics to make other cities sweat where people actually do care, or for the future if somehow the fanbase does grow. If by some miracle, there is another opportunity that goes to a plebiscite in Arizona or elsewhere, they are probably further away from the 51% they need than they were yesterday, if the NHL continues to keep them there at all costs.

The threat of relocation has to be real if the NHL wants to use it when putting pressure on cities, and the only way to make that threat real is to actually do it when something like this fails.
The threat of relocation only works on desperate cities and fans though. Essentially the only markets these threats work in are the smaller Canadian cities other than Toronto-Montreal-Vancouver, and select smaller cities in the US. Atlanta 'lost' the Thrashers 12 years ago; does anyone really gives a damn? No, they don't. The threat was entirely empty in that market, and it's empty in most NHL markets, because the NHL needs those markets more than the cities need the NHL. The Atlanta metropolitan area did not suddenly become some podunk town because the NHL team pulled up stakes: a podunk league that couldn't compete left a bustling metropolis with its tail between its legs.

Talking about this, I think of all the posturing around the Islanders years back. It took essentially two decades to get a Nassau Coliseum replacement built, and there were some tacit threats of relocation, but ultimately these relocation threats rang empty because for the fans on Long Island it was hollow. The Nassau County voters rejected funding the new arena project over 10 years ago, and yeah, the Islanders left... to Brooklyn, for three years, before crawling back. And now they play in a nice shiny arena they funded themselves. Would it have taken away from the "prestige" of Nassau and Suffolk Counties to not have the Islanders playing there? Pfff, no. It didn't make a difference when the Nets moved to New Jersey in 1977; why would it make a difference if the Islanders left? Many Islanders fans would feel alienated and stop following hockey, but their civic pride was not at stake. The Islanders came back, ponied up the cash to get a solution figured out, and everything's hunky-dory now.

The New York City area is obviously a somewhat special case, in that its huge population makes it a juggernaut in hosting pro sports, but many of the other big cities in the States also have the same power over a league like the NHL. The NHL is far and away the smallest of the "big 4" sports leagues, and for cities like Atlanta, Houston, Phoenix: frankly it's small potatoes. Those cities do not define themselves by the presence of a National Hockey League team, in much the same way that Calgary, Vancouver and Edmonton don't lament the loss of their Pacific Coast League AAA baseball teams 20 years ago. The threat of relocation has no teeth there.

The Coyotes lucked out in that the Phoenix metropolitan area is a fractured mess of municipal governments seemingly out to #### each other over, and Glendale was gullible enough to take the bait and build an arena in the middle of frickin' nowhere for them to play in. It never should have been built, it was a dumb idea from the beginning, and it worked for a time but reality eventually hit the Coyotes/Glendale like a brick. The whole area is a farce of urban planning, and the very existence of that metropolis is like humanity spitting in the face of God. Hockey in Glendale was never going to work long-term. Football works only because it's one game a week on Sundays. Baseball downtown works... okay. Basketball, same. Hockey in the far-flung 'burbs? Was always a dumb idea.

Glendale wised up and not only let the Coyotes walk: they booted them out and said "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!" To have subsidized them as long as they did was preposterous, and they finally stopped believing in the sunk cost fallacy and pulled the Band-Aid off. They're no worse for it.

Likewise, if this really is it for the Tempe plan, and for the Phoenix area in general: few will mourn the Coyotes departure. To make a crude analogy: the Coyotes are a deadbeat whom the Phoenix area will happily let walk away from the relationship, and the deadbeat's pleas "you'll be sorry I left!" will be met with rolling eyes and hushed chuckling. Phoenix is a hottie, she'll be just fine without the Coyotes. Only the sad, lonely, desperate cities like Quebec City might fall for the Coyotes' shtick. Other hotties like Houston and Atlanta don't give a flying ####, they've got lots of options.
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Old 05-17-2023, 08:16 PM   #277
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Atlanta and Miami are world class Podunk sports towns
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Old 05-17-2023, 08:24 PM   #278
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SLC Golden Trumpets
The Utah Frog Effers.

If you haven't watched Book of Mormons yet you need to!
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Old 05-17-2023, 08:28 PM   #279
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Manholes on the KC train. Let's gooo

https://twitter.com/user/status/1658977658665938945
I can just imagine the BBQ at the game!!!
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Old 05-17-2023, 08:39 PM   #280
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Letter sent to season ticket holders

https://twitter.com/user/status/1658979891495436288
Hard to take these guys seriously.
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