[News] Calgary, Alberta, & CSEC agree in principle to $1.223bn Event Centre + infrastructure

[8sPOT]

I just want it to be done right. Some of these other cities I've been too have it where the arena has cool amenities attached/near. so it really feels like this all inclusive experience where you can do all kinds of things. Such a great opportunity to create a whole new dynamic.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I reject the argument that the Flames would leave without this arena. The NHL has shown very little appetite to move teams from viable markets unless everything fails. The idea they'd let Murray or whoever pick up and move to Houston and cost them a market they can use to get $1 billion expansion fee doesn't make sense to me.

Yup. If there was an obstinate administration/city council who absolutely refused to negotiate it might be another story, but we passed that threshold long ago.

The crazy thing is that if the city held firm, but CSEC did too and started jumping through the hoops to the point a move actually looked probable, the last ditch deal wouldn't look much worse than this. Of course I understand the councillors don't want this distraction for years to come, and ultimately it's hard to maintain a unified stance with so many stakeholders on the city's side.

[Bonded]

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/alberta-d...ests-1.6378236

[Aarongavey]

https://twitter.com/tempe_wins/statu...561439745?s=12

The pro arena side in Tempe is using the Calgary deal to try to drum up support for a new arena in Tempe. Pointing out how much taxpayer money went into the Calgary rink and how little is going into the Tempe arena.

[jayswin]

You know your city/province got taken to the cleaners by a billionaire when.

[PepsiFree]

Makes sense. We've taken the trophy for the largest arena subsidy in history, so why wouldn't teams desperate for some cash point to us and say, "Look how much worse it could be! Don't we look so generous now?"?

Saw that the Coyotes are somewhat worried the vote isn't going to go their way. Surprisingly, as I had heard here, it was a lock.

[accord1999]

Opponents of the Tempe deal disagree with it not costing taxpayer money.

https://kjzz.org/content/1844391/wha...-entertainment

Lauren Kuby left the Tempe council last year. After serving two terms, she was familiar with the long negotiations with the Coyotes that resulted in next month’s propositions.

She says the team’s promise of private financing only goes so far.

“They’re maliciously misrepresenting the truth, shall we say. They’re saying it’s privately financed–they’re referring to the actual arena itself. But within and underneath the arena, you need all that infrastructure, right? And so, there are going to be taxes, hotel taxes, bed taxes, sales taxes going to pay for the infrastructure,” said Kuby.

Kuby, Senior Global Futures Scientist at ASU, says that residents will also pay, in the form of tax breaks for the developers.

“City taxpayers, the public, are going to be responsible for $740 million. A big chunk of that is that once the buildings are built, then they have relief of property taxes for up to 30 years, so that’s $500 million in itself. The other $240 million is the infrastructure to build the district," said Kuby.

The dollar figures given by the No side are similar to the what the Flames are getting.

It's possible that if Calgary was willing to sell all the vacant land in that area for cheap to a private developer, allow it to be developed as they see fit and gave them a share of incremental property tax revenue increases, that somebody would do the same thing as Tempe.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by accord1999

Opponents of the Tempe deal disagree with it not costing taxpayer money.

https://kjzz.org/content/1844391/wha...-entertainment






The dollar figures given by the No side are similar to the what the Flames are getting.

It's possible that if Calgary was willing to sell all the vacant land in that area for cheap to a private developer, allow it to be developed as they see fit and gave them a share of incremental property tax revenue increases, that somebody would do the same thing as Tempe.

I guess it depends on whether the city will have a triple net lease and force the Flames to pay property taxes. If they do then there is not a further subsidy, if they don’t then based on the Arizona numbers that would be another 500 million dollar subsidy for the Flames. Those are the things that are secret right now but will come out over time.

[PeteMoss]

The province is paying the infrastructure part of the cost that is mentioned as a cost to Tempe - so that part is being covered in Calgary as well but by the province instead of the city. I somehow doubt the Flames are going to pay for an additional infrastructure needs to came up once this is built.

As for the property tax - doesn't the city own the arena here. Possible they include it in the rent but we will see (or what Aarongavey said above)

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I guess it depends on whether the city will have a triple net lease and force the Flames to pay property taxes.

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

As for the property tax - doesn't the city own the arena here. Possible they include it in the rent but we will see (or what Aarongavey said above)

Yeah, Calgary would own the event centre so there would be no property taxes on it but the Flames would pay a modest rent for 35 years (I recall net present value is around $350M). The Coyotes would own their arena but would get up to 30 years of property tax relief. The Flames get a big upfront subsidy, the Coyotes get a yearly subsidy.

[carmenshoes]

How do we know the cost of this project will be exactly $1.223 Billion?

I'm sure there will be cost overruns. Who will cover that?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by carmenshoes

How do we know the cost of this project will be exactly $1.223 Billion?

I'm sure there will be cost overruns. Who will cover that?

50/50 city/flames

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

50/50 city/flames

Until Edwards wants something and throws a fit and runs away.

I'm sure he's waiting the next civic election for a candidate to throw even more city money into his pockets.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Until Edwards wants something and throws a fit and runs away.

I'm sure he's waiting the next civic election for a candidate to throw even more city money into his pockets.

Just stop.

Why is it you want to be wrong about every freaking thing you babble about??

So weird.

Wingnuts be wingnuts i suppose.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Just stop.

Why is it you want to be wrong about every freaking thing you babble about??

So weird.

Wingnuts be wingnuts i suppose.

Why don't you go away you know nothing about anything.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Why don't you go away you know nothing about anything.

Lets take a vote on that shall we mods?

[PepsiFree]

What are we voting on? Like any good plebiscite, I'm ready to cast a vote that's going to disappoint someone.

[Brendone]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

What are we voting on? Like any good plebiscite, I'm ready to cast a vote that's going to disappoint someone.

No chance 51% of people in this town agree on anything

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

What are we voting on? Like any good plebiscite, I'm ready to cast a vote that's going to disappoint someone.

That I am a wing nut that doesn't know anything.

Setup the poll.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Just stop.

Why is it you want to be wrong about every freaking thing you babble about??

So weird.

Wingnuts be wingnuts i suppose.

Despite that poster's rep on CP and perhaps his dramatic delivery of his point in that post, he isn't exactly wrong about the Flames and Murray.

They did run away from the last deal after cost overruns due to supply chain issues during Covid. And they do put money into local elections and attempt to get 'their' mayor in so they can more effectively negotiate for tax payer money.