[News] Flames and Treliving agree to part ways. Maloney promoted to PoHO and interim GM

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Fully agree. I’m sure Treliving and Company bought into the Brian Burke school of looking at your competition (primarily Edmonton and Colorado) and thought the shut down style would be best to compete with them. But it really doesn’t work. Even from a good product to watch, I’d argue isn’t great, and that even flows down to attracting talent to the team. Certainly winning helps a lot of things but having a fun team to watch really builds excitement. That’s lost on these guys making those decisions. Frankly if it’s a team who tries and out score you, I’d love to tune in to see the skill at play — even if losing. Old school hockey guys will disagree but the game has gone through a change the past 20 years and it’s puzzling the Flames keep wanting this old school mentality.

In a couple cases (Monahan and Tkachuk) it was simply BPA. And it's hard to argue Toffoli isn't an effective player despite his lack of speed (and I think Huberdeau will be OK as well).

But as a team I think they just need to be faster. I've not watched enough of Pelletier and Coronato to figure out if they are upper end but Coronato seemed to be in his one game. Pelletier was more Lindholm/Backlund level. Is Zary fast? Never watched him for a game.

Back end, if Kylington comes back, you have him, Hanifin, Zadorov and, if re-signed, Stecher, with good speed and Tanev, Andersson and Tanev are not slow.

The 4th line should be fast and buzz saw like.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

The one area of this organization that I feel comfortable with is the amateur scouting and development program. I do not have faith in anything else at the moment, especially since we do not know who the GM will be, or who the coach will be, and given how 'up and down' everything has been over the last few seasons.


Treliving had traded a number of picks, so I don't think that we can really tell how the scouting is trending. However, I would be shocked if the Flames are not widely considered a solid drafting team, and one that is ranked somewhere in the top half of the league. In fact, I remember seeing a few models that had the Flames in around the top 5 of the league, though these were a little subjective (weights/values assigned to picks, number of selections, etc).


I like the relative stability of the drafting and development program here, and I have been impressed with the arc that started under Darryl Sutter's tenure as GM, through Feaster's short tenure, the 'blip' for Burke (draft seemed to deviate a little under his one year), and then into Treliving's tenure. Last few years right through until today I think the scouting staff deserve some praise, and this is the one area that concerns me the most with a new GM coming in and perhaps wanting to impose his will here.


Please add to it, but do not make any significant changes (other than expanding it further in Europe please!).

Odd that Todd Button's name isn't out there for GM. His role in the org must be as big as an AGM's. He's run a good ship for years. Would be fascinated to see his lists in the early Sutter gm days.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I wonder happens to the internal candidates if we hire from the outside do they stay and get promoted? Do they leave?

Would be a bit of a awkward position.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I wonder happens to the internal candidates if we hire from the outside do they stay and get promoted? Do they leave?

Would be a bit of a awkward position.

Conny extended so depending on language in his contract I would expect him to remain on.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Odd that Todd Button's name isn't out there for GM. His role in the org must be as big as an AGM's. He's run a good ship for years. Would be fascinated to see his lists in the early Sutter gm days.

Maybe Craig has something to do with it

[Paulie Walnuts]

I just listened to the part he talks about the people and he uses the word I thought and I wonder but nothing concrete. Strange way to put out rumours.

[FlamesAddiction]

Friedman has reported that the Leafs may be committed to keeping Dubas now.

https://theleafsnation.com/news/frie...ing-kyle-dubas

He also reported that one of the owners wanted to extend him during the season, but 2 other owners blocked it.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

The one area of this organization that I feel comfortable with is the amateur scouting and development program. I do not have faith in anything else at the moment, especially since we do not know who the GM will be, or who the coach will be, and given how 'up and down' everything has been over the last few seasons.


Treliving had traded a number of picks, so I don't think that we can really tell how the scouting is trending. However, I would be shocked if the Flames are not widely considered a solid drafting team, and one that is ranked somewhere in the top half of the league. In fact, I remember seeing a few models that had the Flames in around the top 5 of the league, though these were a little subjective (weights/values assigned to picks, number of selections, etc).


I like the relative stability of the drafting and development program here, and I have been impressed with the arc that started under Darryl Sutter's tenure as GM, through Feaster's short tenure, the 'blip' for Burke (draft seemed to deviate a little under his one year), and then into Treliving's tenure. Last few years right through until today I think the scouting staff deserve some praise, and this is the one area that concerns me the most with a new GM coming in and perhaps wanting to impose his will here.


Please add to it, but do not make any significant changes (other than expanding it further in Europe please!).

I think you’re right when it comes to scouting. I liked Trelivings picks during his tenure here when he didn’t trade those picks away. But if they move to a rebuild there has to be more focus on ensuring those picks are right and they’ve seen them and done their homework over time, so that’s where beefing scouting come to play. I don’t agree that the player development has been good. It’s a chicken before the egg argument I’m about to make but who have they recently developed on the team? Totally understand Daryl hasn’t invited some to play but I don’t think anyone outside flames nation thinks that highly of any player on the Wranglers aside from Wolf.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I wonder happens to the internal candidates if we hire from the outside do they stay and get promoted? Do they leave?

Would be a bit of a awkward position.

The answer is simple. If they’re worth keeping around you pay them more retention money. I’m sure you can’t wipe slate completely and they’ll have to do this with Conroy at least.

[liamenator]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Friedman has reported that the Leafs may be committed to keeping Dubas now.

https://theleafsnation.com/news/frie...ing-kyle-dubas

He also reported that one of the owners wanted to extend him during the season, but 2 other owners blocked it.

Yeah, I think it was Friedman who mentioned a while ago that Larry Tanenbaum wanted to extend Dubas but Rogers and Bell did not, and that having to eat Babcock's massive contract upon his firing has made MLSE gun shy in terms of executive compensation (which was why it took so long for the Raptors to get Masai's contract done last summer).

[activeStick]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1658191414163808278

https://twitter.com/user/status/1658198682389340167

[bluejays]

Sounds ominous. But also he has a good bargaining position. If they don’t sign him they’re in a very rough spot to make quick major decisions.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Sounds ominous. But also he has a good bargaining position. If they don’t sign him they’re in a very rough spot to make quick major decisions.

I was thinking it sounded like non-news. "I will speak to everyone I would speak to anyway"?

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

{snip}
Even Gaudreau was quick as opposed to fast.

Their best skaters up front right now are middle six: Dube, Coleman, Duehr.

If you watch the POs right now the pace is very fast. Flames are not at that level as a team.

What I've seen of the POs is not so much speed as what you first mention above...quick as opposed to fast. It's not good enough to move the puck up ice fast and gain the zone if your other players are too "unquick" to make a play. They can be behind (ie not fast) but if they think fast and can make the play quickly ... that can make up for a lack of foot speed.

Flames have for years had guys who don't think quickly enough.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

What I've seen of the POs is not so much speed as what you first mention above...quick as opposed to fast. It's not good enough to move the puck up ice fast and gain the zone if your other players are too "unquick" to make a play. They can be behind (ie not fast) but if they think fast and can make the play quickly ... that can make up for a lack of foot speed.

Flames have for years had guys who don't think quickly enough.

Maybe, but there's still something to be said for guys who can simply push the D back with speed, make the outside play, and make them play with some doubt at the offensive blue line.

[Tkachukwagon]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1658192412932448274

Can probably scratch Dubas off the list

[Number 39]

Somewhat related question.

For obvious reasons Chris Snow is not in consideration for the GM role but do we know how robust an analytics dept the Flames braintrust has built under him? Is there a team or just a couple of folks? Just curious as if I was being interviewed I'd want to understand that aspect of the organization.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Number 39

Somewhat related question.

For obvious reasons Chris Snow is not in consideration for the GM role but do we know how robust an analytics dept the Flames braintrust has built under him? Is there a team or just a couple of folks? Just curious as if I was being interviewed I'd want to understand that aspect of the organization.

They are currently hiring a Data Engineer & Developer - Hockey Operations: https://recruiting.ultipro.ca/CAL500...3-6667203f7b79


That doesn't answer your question, but it shows it's something the team is focused on.

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by Number 39

Somewhat related question.

For obvious reasons Chris Snow is not in consideration for the GM role but do we know how robust an analytics dept the Flames braintrust has built under him? Is there a team or just a couple of folks? Just curious as if I was being interviewed I'd want to understand that aspect of the organization.

Read this article. Pretty neat.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by bluejays

That’s partially why I’m afraid of Conroy coming in. There needs to be a revolutionary change here. If it were an evolutionary one I wouldn’t mind Conroy but we need someone looking objectively at the puzzle we have and figuring out who needs to be part of the future and what that future looks like at what timelines. Conroy is a victim of circumstance here but I do wonder if he has biases towards staying the course with an old strategy.

Some good points here, he might lack the foresight to create outside the box from just not having exposure to other stataagies with other organizations. On the other hand from a player stand point, he might be more willing to take risks or give skilled and young players more opportunities.