WCSF: Vegas Golden Knights [PAC1] vs Edmonton Oilers [PAC2] Vegas wins 4-2

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by 1991 Canadian

Gonna be a fun offseason for the Oilers. “Boosh bomb” is going to eat up their cap space, then they more of less roll out the same team. Goalies included.

They’ll be a playoff team again next year, but I just don’t see a contender.

This was the oilers best shot at a cup, and they blew it.

They will have a tough time icing a team that is equal to this year's. Here is their cap situation (including only one of Desharnais or Niemelainen):

8 forwards..... $43,525,000
6 defensemen $22,875,833
2 goalies......... $7,600,000
dead space...... $2,766,667

Total:............ $76,767,500
Space:............ $6,732,500

They need to sign one d-man (Bouchard) and 5 or 6 forwards. Kostin and McLeod are RFAs, so you assume they are signing them.

Even if you assume league minimum for the 5 forwards (I can't see Kostin signing for that), that leaves $2.9M for Bouchard. No way in hell he signs for that. If you assume something like $4M for Bouchard (still conservative), that leaves them able to sign 3 guys at league minimum, and still be 3 bodies short.

So no Janmark, no Ryan, no Bjugstad - all replaced with league minimum guys. And they STILL need to find about $3M, so they'll need to move Yamamoto (and replace with league minimum).

Next year (24/25) is exactly the same. Then Draisaitl becomes UFA. Yes, this was their window.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

They will have a tough time icing a team that is equal to this year's. Here is their cap situation (including only one of Desharnais or Niemelainen):

8 forwards..... $43,525,000
6 defensemen $22,875,833
2 goalies......... $7,600,000
dead space...... $2,766,667

Total:............ $76,767,500
Space:............ $6,732,500

They need to sign one d-man (Bouchard) and 5 or 6 forwards. Kostin and McLeod are RFAs, so you assume they are signing them.

Even if you assume league minimum for the 5 forwards (I can't see Kostin signing for that), that leaves $2.9M for Bouchard. No way in hell he signs for that. If you assume something like $4M for Bouchard (still conservative), that leaves them able to sign 3 guys at league minimum, and still be 3 bodies short.

So no Janmark, no Ryan, no Bjugstad - all replaced with league minimum guys. And they STILL need to find about $3M, so they'll need to move Yamamoto (and replace with league minimum).

Next year (24/25) is exactly the same. Then Draisaitl becomes UFA. Yes, this was their window.

Yikes.. I did not realize it was that bad.

[Enoch Root]

I mean yeah, it was looking like everything was setting up to potentially allow for the worst possible outcome. No arguments there.

But that does not excuse coming here, to CP, as a Flames fan, and harping that the Oilers are going to win the cup. There are some things that, even when you think them, you simply don't say them.

[Enoch Root]

The other thing, with respect to this being their window, is that the league does not particularly like diving. Periodically, teams will start to use it as a weapon, and the refs and the other teams are caught off guard, and are unprepared to do much about it. So it works for a while.

But then, once it has been exposed to the light of day, and the league is fully aware that it is happening, it becomes less effective, and less tolerated.

Even last night is a good example - there were a few blatant dives throughout the game, and the refs did not bite.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

Yikes.. I did not realize it was that bad.

I think you meant "good".

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

They will have a tough time icing a team that is equal to this year's. Here is their cap situation (including only one of Desharnais or Niemelainen):

8 forwards..... $43,525,000
6 defensemen $22,875,833
2 goalies......... $7,600,000
dead space...... $2,766,667

Total:............ $76,767,500
Space:............ $6,732,500

They need to sign one d-man (Bouchard) and 5 or 6 forwards. Kostin and McLeod are RFAs, so you assume they are signing them.

Even if you assume league minimum for the 5 forwards (I can't see Kostin signing for that), that leaves $2.9M for Bouchard. No way in hell he signs for that. If you assume something like $4M for Bouchard (still conservative), that leaves them able to sign 3 guys at league minimum, and still be 3 bodies short.

So no Janmark, no Ryan, no Bjugstad - all replaced with league minimum guys. And they STILL need to find about $3M, so they'll need to move Yamamoto (and replace with league minimum).

Next year (24/25) is exactly the same. Then Draisaitl becomes UFA. Yes, this was their window.

McLeod is a 23 year old forward who scored 23 points in 57 games. Some team in the NHL would be well advised to throw him a 3.1 million dollar one year deal (could go as high as 4.2 millon and still have to give up the same compensation) and give the Oilers a 2nd round pick for him. He skates well, has decent size and has produced on the third line for the Oilers (was on a 33 point pace over 82 games). I could see him developing into a 40 point third line center in this league.

2.9 million is way too low for Bouchard. He is another guy that somebody could offer sheet. He is unlikely ever going to be a good defensive dman but with that shot and the PP skillset he could be a 60 point PP specialist dman. Someone could offer him 4.2 million and 6.3 million on a one year deal and only have to give up a 1st and a 3rd and control his rights through RFA for the next 4 seasons.

Oilers likely match on Bouchard but they would probably let McLeod walk if someone gave him an offer sheet.

If I was a NHL GM with some cap space those are two young guys I would be looking at on the Oilers. Compensation is low and the team would have a hard time matching.

[CaptainCrunch]

With respect for the diving. The Oilers spent too much time doing this in the regular season, and frankly officials watch videos and talk. The golden rule is don't do something that makes the refs look stupid. The Oilers continually did that in the regular season. In the playoffs the refs stopped calling the tippy tacky stuff.



Its similar to the Canucks a few years ago, they dove all over the ice in the regular season, and tried it in the playoffs. And eventually we saw the Sedins getting punched in the mouth over and over again in the playoffs with no calls.



When a team lives and dies on a power play because they suck 5v5 and a big part of their strategy is diving. The refs catch on.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think the Knights are pretty underrated around these parts. They are a really good hockey team and Cassidy is a really good head coach when he's still in his shelf life.

I agree that the Knights have a solid team. Goaltending is the one area where they don't have that proven commodity doing the job. But anyone they've put in goal has been pretty successful because the rest of the team plays a structured game around them. But they do clearly circumvent the cap....

Still in game 1 you could see Skinner coming apart, and Vegas was going to be able to take advantage of it.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

McLeod is a 23 year old forward who scored 23 points in 57 games. Some team in the NHL would be well advised to throw him a 3.1 million dollar one year deal (could go as high as 4.2 millon and still have to give up the same compensation) and give the Oilers a 2nd round pick for him. He skates well, has decent size and has produced on the third line for the Oilers (was on a 33 point pace over 82 games). I could see him developing into a 40 point third line center in this league.

2.9 million is way too low for Bouchard. He is another guy that somebody could offer sheet. He is unlikely ever going to be a good defensive dman but with that shot and the PP skillset he could be a 60 point PP specialist dman. Someone could offer him 4.2 million and 6.3 million on a one year deal and only have to give up a 1st and a 3rd and control his rights through RFA for the next 4 seasons.

Oilers likely match on Bouchard but they would probably let McLeod walk if someone gave him an offer sheet.

If I was a NHL GM with some cap space those are two young guys I would be looking at on the Oilers. Compensation is low and the team would have a hard time matching.

I wasn't suggesting that Bouchard is going to be offered $2.9M, I was saying that, even if all other skaters get league minimum, there is only $2.9M left for him. My expectation is that they offer him something in the $4s.

As for McLeod, I agree 100%. I am not too big on offer sheets (they rarely work, and you end up paying too much), but in this case, the Oilers simply cannot pay him what he is worth, so an offer sheet either works, or totally screws them.

Exact same argument can be made for Kostin. Something around $2 - $2.5M, and it would be very difficult for Edmonton to match.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

They will have a tough time icing a team that is equal to this year's. Here is their cap situation (including only one of Desharnais or Niemelainen):

8 forwards..... $43,525,000
6 defensemen $22,875,833
2 goalies......... $7,600,000
dead space...... $2,766,667

Total:............ $76,767,500
Space:............ $6,732,500

They need to sign one d-man (Bouchard) and 5 or 6 forwards. Kostin and McLeod are RFAs, so you assume they are signing them.

Even if you assume league minimum for the 5 forwards (I can't see Kostin signing for that), that leaves $2.9M for Bouchard. No way in hell he signs for that. If you assume something like $4M for Bouchard (still conservative), that leaves them able to sign 3 guys at league minimum, and still be 3 bodies short.

So no Janmark, no Ryan, no Bjugstad - all replaced with league minimum guys. And they STILL need to find about $3M, so they'll need to move Yamamoto (and replace with league minimum).

Next year (24/25) is exactly the same. Then Draisaitl becomes UFA. Yes, this was their window.

Have you included the $1.9 owing to James Neal in all this?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Have you included the $1.9 owing to James Neal in all this?

"Dead space". Pretty on the nose if you ask me.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I wasn't suggesting that Bouchard is going to be offered $2.9M, I was saying that, even if all other skaters get league minimum, there is only $2.9M left for him. My expectation is that they offer him something in the $4s.

As for McLeod, I agree 100%. I am not too big on offer sheets (they rarely work, and you end up paying too much), but in this case, the Oilers simply cannot pay him what he is worth, so an offer sheet either works, or totally screws them.

Exact same argument can be made for Kostin. Something around $2 - $2.5M, and it would be very difficult for Edmonton to match.

Gotcha.

I like offer sheets. I would way rather try to get a guy like McLeod than spend money on a UFA. Generally the compensation is low to get those guys and lots of teams end up screwing themselves by getting UFA’s at a higher price and longer term. If you sign McLeaod and he turns out to be a 40 point third line forward you can sign him longterm (through his 20’s, his prime years) and all it will have cost you is a 2nd rounder. You actually get him for his most productive years. With the exception of Backlund most guys who sign longterm deals to take themselves through their 30’s are getting worse season over season.

[bc-chris]

Originally Posted by bc-chris

sportsnet is replaying this awesome game in about 30 minutes

got the pvr all set - my son and i will enjoy this momentous game together tomorrow!

i can't wait!!

i guess my son was talking with mom before he came to find me... first thing he exclaims is "dad.... the oilers LOST!!!!!"

he then asked if i recorded the game

life is good!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Have you included the $1.9 owing to James Neal in all this?

Looks like he did, but forgot carryover bonuses.

So, they actually have only $5.9m in space with Bouchard + a minimum of 5 forward to sign.

LOL

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

With how the Oilers have to dismantle their team in order to ice a full roster next season and the Flames turning over a new leaf from their own disaster, it feels like we could be waking up from a 12 month nightmare and that the worst is finally behind us.

[FlamesAddiction]

One of the best parts about this is that Jesse Puljujarvi is still playing and now has a decent chance of being a Cup champion before either McDavid or Draisaitl. While he hasn't been a contributor to the Canes success, the thought of them seeing their whipping boy hoisting the Cup makes me feel pretty OK inside.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

T-minus 2 years until the McDrai window closes.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I wasn't suggesting that Bouchard is going to be offered $2.9M, I was saying that, even if all other skaters get league minimum, there is only $2.9M left for him. My expectation is that they offer him something in the $4s.

As for McLeod, I agree 100%. I am not too big on offer sheets (they rarely work, and you end up paying too much), but in this case, the Oilers simply cannot pay him what he is worth, so an offer sheet either works, or totally screws them.

Exact same argument can be made for Kostin. Something around $2 - $2.5M, and it would be very difficult for Edmonton to match.

I wonder if they end up not even qualifying one of Kostin or Mcleod and cutting them loose pre-arbitration (with the hopes of bidding low afterwards).

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I wonder if they end up not even qualifying one of Kostin or Mcleod and cutting them loose pre-arbitration (with the hopes of bidding low afterwards).

If McLeod was on the open market I think some team would give him a contract that the Oilers could not match.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I wonder if they end up not even qualifying one of Kostin or Mcleod and cutting them loose pre-arbitration (with the hopes of bidding low afterwards).

I think either guy would get an offer sheet if they tried that. Or would be outbid by another team, once into free agency.

The Oilers need to keep both these guys under $1M. They may get away with it with one of them, but I doubt it.