[News] Flames and Treliving agree to part ways. Maloney promoted to PoHO and interim GM

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Regarding how much Edwards sets the agenda, I think it's impossible to know exactly how active he. There is so much rumour, but very little to substantiate it. It often just come off as just giving Treliving a get out of jail free card for every mistake that is made for people were supportive of Treliving's reign.

We also don't know the context. For all we know, when Treliving was interviewed and hired, he may have sold Edwards on this very agenda, of never rebuilding, just try to make the playoffs and anything can happen. After years of sunk cost to build a team like that, the only direction was forward. Now that a new GM is coming in, that person may be able to sell a new agenda to Edwards.

I still think Bean's comment during the presser when he said that there was a "rebuilding" type of trade on the table, and that they were willing to take it. It sounds like Treliving did have a choice and chose to take the other deal. That suggests to me that the idea of rebuilding isn't as taboo as some think. I know Bean also said that he isn't allowed to say the word, but that sounded like a joke, considering that right after that, he said rebuilds are not always off the table.

To me it's not an excuse for Treliving - it's just outlining the circumstances of his employment and what you can expect to change with him gone.

Personally whoever comes into that role is going to have to deal with the pressures of short term roster decisions to make the playoffs and try to win now.

And its not really a complaint about Edwards either, because if I was the owner I would be really hands on too, hell I'd probably just name myself GM and go full Jerry Jones with it.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by getbak

Looks like they start talking about this around the 50 minute mark...

Regarding the Bowman talk: The Commissioner's office must approve teams to talk to Bowman and Quenneville, and as of last Thursday, they have not granted any team permission to talk to either of them. Friedman expects that to change (or thinks it may have already changed over the weekend) and again says he heard Calgary and Pittsburgh were both interested in talking to Bowman, if Bettman grants them permission.


Onto the Flames: He has heard the Flames have begun interviewing GM candidates -- some with previous experience as NHL GMs, and some without. The team is trying to keep it quiet, but Elliotte speculates that Mark Hunter is on the radar. He has also heard multiple names of people who are currently working with teams who are still in the playoffs, like Tulsky, Peverley, and Botterill (although, these names sound like there is more general interest from many teams and not necessarily the Flames specifically).

Asked if Conroy is still among the top candidates, Friedman says he is until they decide otherwise.


----------

Basically, he says a lot but doesn't really say much. The way he talks about the Bowman situation sounds like it was fed to Elliotte by Bowman's camp more than anything concrete from the Flames.

To add from Gary Bettman on The Bob McCown Podcast on Friday regarding Quenneville & Bowman returning to roles in the NHL:

"At the appropriate time, there will need to be some discussion about where things have been and where things are and whether or not it's appropriate to return. But that's not something that I'm comfortable getting into right now."

Q'd by John Shannon: "That would be in theory a discussion between you and them and the operative team I would assume?"

"There are no operative teams because they're not eligible to engage with a team"

Q: "So they can't even negotiate?"

"No."

Q: "So if I was the president of Comcast I couldn't phone Joel and ask him to come in for an interview?"

"No."

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I still think Bean's comment during the presser when he said that there was a "rebuilding" type of trade on the table, and that they were willing to take it. It sounds like Treliving did have a choice and chose to take the other deal. That suggests to me that the idea of rebuilding isn't as taboo as some think. I know Bean also said that he isn't allowed to say the word, but that sounded like a joke, considering that right after that, he said rebuilds are not always off the table.

That's not how I heard that at all. If anything it was the opposite. There was a re-building trade on the table, but the organization didn't want to take that route. I don't think the choice was with BT.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Regarding how much Edwards sets the agenda, I think it's impossible to know exactly how active he. There is so much rumour, but very little to substantiate it. It often just come off as just giving Treliving a get out of jail free card for every mistake that is made for people were supportive of Treliving's reign.

We also don't know the context. For all we know, when Treliving was interviewed and hired, he may have sold Edwards on this very agenda, of never rebuilding, just try to make the playoffs and anything can happen. After years of sunk cost to build a team like that, the only direction was forward. Now that a new GM is coming in, that person may be able to sell a new agenda to Edwards.

I still think Bean's comment during the presser when he said that there was a "rebuilding" type of trade on the table, and that they were willing to take it. It sounds like Treliving did have a choice and chose to take the other deal. That suggests to me that the idea of rebuilding isn't as taboo as some think. I know Bean also said that he isn't allowed to say the word, but that sounded like a joke, considering that right after that, he said rebuilds are not always off the table.

The way I see it is Edwards sets the agenda to be competitive/make the playoffs every year and we have heard this from people close to the team. The team has conducted themselves this way since 2004. Whether it was Sutter,Feaster,Burke or Treliving there hasn’t been much of an indication that this team would willingly rebuild.

When Treliving was hired the Flsmes were in a rebuild. Not by plan, but because they had their hand forced. I would bet Treliving thought they had 2-3 years to draft high and accumulate picks/prospects. The Flsmes go on to make the playoffs in year one, and there was no looking back.

The Flames have never intentionally taken a step backwards. They held on to Iggy and others for years past the point where one could have easily argued it was time to move on and collect the best return you could have. They’ve chased success through risky UFA signings and trading away futures for players who can help now (or at least that was the intent). Treliving was around for some of this, but not all of it. That leads me to believe the the mandate/agenda is coming from above.

I don’t doubt Treliving was on board in this approach, to a point. But, I think it’s entirely reasonable to think he did not have carte blanch to run things as he saw it. I think this also explains, in part, why he was here for 9 years and why HE, at the end of the day, chose to leave.

Maybe the next GM can navigate these waters better but I strongly suspect this is not an easy position and as Maloney and Bean have been saying, this is a good team and they intend to compete/make the playoffs (paraphrasing).

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

That's not how I heard that at all. If anything it was the opposite. There was a re-building trade on the table, but the organization didn't want to take that route. I don't think the choice was with BT.

This is very likely the main reason he's no longer Flames GM. He never really got the autonomy he felt he needed.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

This is very likely the main reason he's no longer Flames GM. He never really got the autonomy he felt he needed.

Half of this forum thinks/thought ownership hired Sutter, perhaps they’re right.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Half of this forum thinks/thought ownership hired Sutter, perhaps they’re right.

I believe that they are likely right. The moment Sutter came in he looked like a guy that was working under the owner and not the GM as pretty well the first thing he did was take shots as the roster construction.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Backed himself into a corner how exactly? By having a super deep defence corps? Or are you saying they should have traded the captain earlier?

Correct

But wasn't the point that captains are special and shouldn't be moved?

Incorrect

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I believe that they are likely right. The moment Sutter came in he looked like a guy that was working under the owner and not the GM as pretty well the first thing he did was take shots as the roster construction.

If that’s the case, I’m surprised Treliving didn’t quit earlier.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Incorrect

Just not exposed? I fail to see the difference, and further fail to see when they were supposed to trade Giordano (and who you advocate would get exposed in that case).

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Can you outline what he should have done instead?

Traded him at the deadline?

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Backed himself into a corner how exactly? By having a super deep defence corps? Or are you saying they should have traded the captain earlier? But wasn't the point that captains are special and shouldn't be moved?

Sure stopped Seattle from making the move.

I know, I know, Gio had been here longer, but it's that sentimental garbage that has held this team back for years. "The team owes it to player X" only to watch player X stick it to them when it matters.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Traded him at the deadline?



Sure stopped Seattle from making the move.

I know, I know, Gio had been here longer, but it's that sentimental garbage that has held this team back for years. "The team owes it to player X" only to watch player X stick it to them when it matters.

I'm not even arguing that. There was a suggestion it was a huge error to expose "the captain" to Seattle. I say it was the only move possible really.

But also, at that particular TDL the return would have been almost nothing. A 3rd maybe.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by TOfan

If that’s the case, I’m surprised Treliving didn’t quit earlier.

He was a professional under contract. He did exactly what was in his power which was to fulfill his contract and not accept a new contract offer to remain GM.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

They also had a trade lined up to trade up to get Tkachuk so its not like they just sat back and let it happen. Once they got intel that the Blue Jackets would go Dubois and word go around Vancouver was going Julovei they stood still.

He was one of the better GM, being a GM in Canada is a hard job. You are never given a chance to rebuild because once you taste a little bit of success the mandate changes quickly to lets go for it.

Look at Ottawa has a bit of a decent season and started trading picks for players.

When it got out that the BJ's were taking Dubois it was Chiarelli that backed out of the deal. Going off memory here but I believe the oilers were targeting Sergachev and were willing to move down until they found out that Puljujarvi would be available. It's just as likely (maybe more likely) that the Flames were trying to trade up to get Puljujarvi as it was Tkachuk.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Traded him at the deadline?

.

Right so then you lose someone else. Likely Kylington.
So you have to factor that in.
Say they could have dealt Gio for two 2nd at that deadline, or a late 1st.

You are basically trading Kylington for that return.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I'm not even arguing that. There was a suggestion it was a huge error to expose "the captain" to Seattle. I say it was the only move possible really.

But also, at that particular TDL the return would have been almost nothing. A 3rd maybe.

Plus the player you lose on top of that.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

He was a professional under contract. He did exactly what was in his power which was to fulfill his contract and not accept a new contract offer to remain GM.

Yeah, I can see that. I was being a little facetious. Tre’s a pro and stuck around despite less than enviable circumstances. Probably one of the reasons why virtually all insiders think he’ll have another job in short order or whenever he’s ready.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Jacks

When it got out that the BJ's were taking Dubois it was Chiarelli that backed out of the deal. Going off memory here but I believe the oilers were targeting Sergachev and were willing to move down until they found out that Puljujarvi would be available. It's just as likely (maybe more likely) that the Flames were trying to trade up to get Puljujarvi as it was Tkachuk.

It has also been rumoured that the Flames like Keller. If Tkachuck had gone earlier, Keller may have been the next guy on their list.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Right so then you lose someone else. Likely Kylington.
So you have to factor that in.
Say they could have dealt Gio for two 2nd at that deadline, or a late 1st.

You are basically trading Kylington for that return.

Or you could make a trade for some schmuck that could fill the gap to be exposed. Take the two 2nds and lose a 7th. Better than getting sweet #### all.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Or you could make a trade for some schmuck that could fill the gap to be exposed. Take the two 2nds and lose a 7th. Better than getting sweet #### all.

So do the Kraken take said schmuck over Kylington?

The approach you’re laying out is pretty close to what they did with Bennett. If I had to bet when the conversation which was surely had about trading Gio, I doubt Sutter was supporting that.