yeah, depending on the direction they want to take, they have a pretty interesting and potentially promising situation at their hands. Toffoli is coming off a career year, players like Lindholm and Hanifin are always in demand, Zadorov had a solid year as well. Some of those contracts are absolute steals for 23-24 ... if you decide to trade some of those this summer and allow them to discuss a contract extension with a new team, I'd imagine you'd get a heck of a return. Backlund and Tanev, I'd see them more as trade chips for the deadline, but again, there should be a healthy market for those kinds of deadline additions.
We obviously don't know the new GM yet and therefore have no idea what they are going to do, and it's entirely possible they'll just run it back and hope for the best ... but potentially they could use this upcoming UFA thing to change course and build for the future.
I think last summer I would agree with you, and the other poster, 100%. We were in a great spot to start a rebuild, although largely forced by Gaudreau and Tkachuk. However, I think the Hubredeau and Kadri deals severely limit our options and really hurt us if we want to go the rebuild route.
San Jose re-built with high end players like Couture, Karlsson, etc. Their presence alone doesn't preclude the team from re-building, though lack of organizational intent probably does.
Regardless I don't think the organization has any intent to re-build so it's rather moot.
But try to discuss things, particularly when you are new to a community, without calling people homers.
None of what you are saying is a hot take or something that folks here don't know. Choosing to take an extremely negative view, and not being open to what others are saying, doesn't make for great discussion.
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Markstrom isn’t an impossibility to move IMO and even if you could right now I see no reason to offload so soon on Huby or Kadri, neither are James Neal 2.0 and both deserve a look under a new coach and new direction. The only contract I’d look to trade that has term left past next season is Markstrom and I could easily see a team in the east that is close to pushing into the playoffs like Buffalo or Ottawa or Pitty taking a flyer on him.
Contracts we should be actively shopping this off-season
Markstrom
Toffoli
Tanev
Dube
Contracts we should be actively trying to extend this off-season
Hanifin
Kylington
Lindholm
Backlund (name captain)
Zadorov
This team finished 2 reg wins outside the playoffs with a coach that was creating a toxic environment and while I don’t want the sentiment of ‘get in and anything can happen’ to be the Flames motto going forward when you look at Florida so far this playoffs I look at the flames roster and think we aren’t that far off especially if some of the roster can push back closer to their career averages under a more modern style coach. The center depth of Lindholm, Kadri and Backlund while aging is still very solid and something we shouldn’t be looking to lose, if we do I think it would be a major reason to push into a full on rebuild which I don’t think is the current mandate of the Flames.
I think last summer I would agree with you, and the other poster, 100%. We were in a great spot to start a rebuild, although largely forced by Gaudreau and Tkachuk. However, I think the Hubredeau and Kadri deals severely limit our options and really hurt us if we want to go the rebuild route.
You still need to be a cap floor team and the flames could have 18 m tied up in worse players than Huby and Kads; I think too the season that just happened paired with Tre walking makes it seem at lot worse than things actually are. The flames have a ton of flexibility moving forward and if they’re smart with the current pending UFA pool along with the first round pick selection in a deep draft this year they could really reset the current core in a positive way. Lots of youth to be excited about as well in Coronato, Pelletier, Wolf and Poirier along with a rejuvenated Kylington coming back into the fold. I can understand being pessimistic right now, I do get it, but with how much is currently up in the air with the Flames and how much decisions need to be made this offseason I can’t see how you can make any kind of informed opinion about where the flames are at until some things fall into place.
I’m not optimistic about the new direction of the Flames atm nor am I pessimistic about it either because we don’t even have a GM or coach named yet. Once the draft comes and goes we should all have a clearer picture of the direction and until that happens I can’t see how you couldn’t be excited; it’s been a decade since the management team had this severe of a change over, let’s hope for the best before expecting the worst!
San Jose re-built with high end players like Couture, Karlsson, etc. Their presence alone doesn't preclude the team from re-building, though lack of organizational intent probably does.
Regardless I don't think the organization has any intent to re-build so it's rather moot.
But try to discuss things, particularly when you are new to a community, without calling people homers.
None of what you are saying is a hot take or something that folks here don't know. Choosing to take an extremely negative view, and not being open to what others are saying, doesn't make for great discussion.
I agree that the organization's apparent unwillingness to rebuild is likely the biggest issue we are facing when it comes to a rebuild.
I don't think anything I have said is a hot take which is why I am a little surprised that I have been singled out, I have seen similar sentiments from others that don't get called out for being pessimists.
I apologize if the homer comment offended people but to me that was the only way I could see someone thinking that my views were "lame", they may not agree with them but going to the lame insult is pretty weak in my view.
I think it comes back to how you seemed to be framing Huberdeau and comparing his 55 and 115 point seasons which seemed like an overly negative interpretation of the numbers
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San Jose re-built with high end players like Couture, Karlsson, etc. Their presence alone doesn't preclude the team from re-building, though lack of organizational intent probably does.
Regardless I don't think the organization has any intent to re-build so it's rather moot.
But try to discuss things, particularly when you are new to a community, without calling people homers.
None of what you are saying is a hot take or something that folks here don't know. Choosing to take an extremely negative view, and not being open to what others are saying, doesn't make for great discussion.
Nice post. Terms like “homer” draw responses like “troll”. Not a productive discourse in my eyes, but we all choose how we “enjoy” this forum.
I think San Jose is Calgary’s cautionary tale. We’re not watching a rebuild, but rather a bloodletting. I was at a function a few years ago talking to a non-hockey person in their front office and suggested that they were in for some hard times with their bloated roster. She admitted to knowing very little about hockey, but said she was a little shocked to hear this as those in the building seemed to be of a single voice that they had a great team and she had heard they had a bunch of star players. Maybe behind closed doors there were different thoughts, but I imagine they had an echo chamber in place before Grier was brought in to begin to fix the mess. If they had foresight, what they’re going through now could have been lessened in length and intensity.
Fortunately for the Flames they have the ability to mitigate years of pain this summer. Will be interesting to see if they start the reconstruction or if they go full Shark and hope guys find their legs as they wander into their 30s. I certainly hope they don’t go that route, because I’ve seen how that has eroded interest in the Sharks, but some folks only learn by taking the plunge.
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If you do want to “rebuild” having players like Huberdeau and Kadri on some bloated contracts kind of helps IMO. You have to reach the cap floor anyway and this restricts how much you can spend in other areas.
Those two players could hopefully rebound and play up to their contracts for the next few years. So you may as well compete as best you can, just hopefully they do so with less emphasis on trading away picks and signing veteran UFA’s.
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With the fact that the Flames aren't rebuilding - they do need to enter a "cultivating assets" stage. No more deficit spending - at all. That means not even a 7th round pick traded.
If the organization truly believes they are as good as they say they believe they are, then no more sacrificing the future to add to it. The roster is already super great, right? So no need to leverage the future to add to it. They have to be cautious of expiring deals (like Lindholm, Hanifin, Backlund etc), and aim to prioritize youth and draft capital in return - but if the roster is already super good, then losing a player or two while adding youth and additional components to the future is only prudent, as this roster doesn't need those depth players anyways.
Not tying myself into anything just pointing out facts.
What fact are you pointing out? That Huberdeau is an elite forward who is closer to 115 pts than he is to 55 pts. If that’s what you were pointing out - sorry for the confusion.
Flames goaltending duo was 48th and 50th in save%, among tenders who had played in 20+ games. Average tending gets them in but not close to truly competing. Would need exceptional tending for that. And is probably still a stretch
“I actually really enjoyed playing for him. He’s a really well-respected coach. He’s had a ton of success around the NHL, dating back to even his time in Calgary,” Stecher said. “He was someone I came in and kind of heard a lot of different things from some of the players there that were former teammates, and he was someone I respected. It was a coach I like playing for. He was my style of coach. We got along great, so obviously, it’s tough to see him go, but it’s part of the business.”
“I’m a player that works hard and keeps my mouth shut, and he’s a coach that really respects that and expects the best out of you. And if you’re gonna pout and you’re gonna complain, which I don’t think I do as an individual, then you’re obviously going to hear from him. So he’s someone that I respect,” Stecher said. “The fact that if you work hard, he’s going to give you an opportunity, and that’s exactly what he gave me in Calgary. He gave me a great opportunity to play an important role for our team on the third pair and a lot of meaningful minutes, so I really enjoyed my time with him.”
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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Next coach will have some work to do with that locker room. Sutter wasn’t the answer as coach, but he’s not to blame for some of the poor effort that was evident on the ice.
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Has anything ever come out about Markstrom's relationship with Sutter. Markstrom obviously had a terrible year, but I don't recall Sutter ever giving him a hard time, and I don't recall ever reading any comments from either of the goalies about Sutter.
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"If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?"
Has anything ever come out about Markstrom's relationship with Sutter. Markstrom obviously had a terrible year, but I don't recall Sutter ever giving him a hard time, and I don't recall ever reading any comments from either of the goalies about Sutter.
It was interesting that Sutter seemed really defensive of Kadri down the stretch, saying Naz was likely fatigued and was trying his best. He did limit Naz's ice time, which maybe led to some hurt feelings. But in all fairness, if someone is fatigued, reducing their ice time seems like the obvious thing to do.
Im less worried about Kadri next year than I am about some of the other players
It was interesting that Sutter seemed really defensive of Kadri down the stretch, saying Naz was likely fatigued and was trying his best. He did limit Naz's ice time, which maybe led to some hurt feelings. But in all fairness, if someone is fatigued, reducing their ice time seems like the obvious thing to do.
Im less worried about Kadri next year than I am about some of the other players
I'm not too worried about Kadri either. It's too bad that his mailed in performances near the end tainted the impression people have, but for most of the season, he was trying as hard or harder than a lot of other players. At times it seemed like he was trying to do too much and got in over his head. I thought the last couple of games up until they were eliminated, he was putting in a decent effort. I'd also say Huberdeau turned it up for the last few games as well once the urgency really set in. If I had to pick one of those guys to rebound back to the mean, I have less concern about Kadri, although he has less ground to make up in that regard too.
I thought Stecher's comment about pouters was interesting. I wonder if he saw that specifically from some players.
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
