[News] 2023 Norris Top 3: Fox, Karlsson, Makar

[Atodaso]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Not quite with Karlsson because you don't get credit for goals scored when on the powerplay. The fact that San Jose was awful really hurts his +/- stats as well. Especially relative to Makar and Fox, both of whom are on top 5 teams in the league.

Karlsson isn't getting near the respect he deserves in this thread in my view.

Edit: you can also be on the ice and not get a point on a goal or to be doing everything right and a goal is scored against you and it isn't your fault. It is a very poor statistic to use in my opinion.

This is fair and I usually don't give a ton of merit to +/- generally. It was just glaring by comparison, but the fact their respective teams are on different ends of the standings does play a huge factor.

Overall, I think there should be two awards for defensemen. The Norris can continue to be given to the defenseman who scores the most, while a new one could be more focused on defensive metrics. A Selke for defensemen, if you will.

[Blaster86]

Makar needs to play a full damn season.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by bax

Karlsson put up 1 less even strength point than Connor McDavid. As a defenseman on a pretty terrible team that is insane.

McDavid put up 1 more even strength point than a defenseman on a pretty terrible team. That is insane.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

McDavid put up 1 more even strength point than a defenseman on a pretty terrible team. That is insane.

But you need to consider that Karlsson was allowed to free wheel with no regard for defensive play.

Oh, I seem to have lost my train of thought......

[Enoch Root]

Plus minus is not the greatest of stats, to be sure. And comparing +/- on players of different teams is pretty pointless. However, that does not change the fact that Karlsson was absolutely horrific defensively this year. I can't think of many players, over the years, that looked worse than he looked defensively, when I watched him this year.

[Cole436]

Hughes should have been nominated over Makar. He had unbelievable season considering the lack of support on the Canucks blue line.

As well, Makar only played 60 games, which should disqualify him from contention.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Cole436

Hughes should have been there over Makar. He had unbelievable season considering the support he had, as well Makar only played 60 games.

I would have said Dahlin but eithe of those two over Makar.

I sense Makar will be a reputation vote for a few years even if he has an “off” year

[TheIronMaiden]

I hope fox steps in a gopher hole.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I hope fox steps in a gopher hole.

No gophers in NYC, maybe that's why he wanted to go there. Gopherholetripaphobia.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Plus minus is not the greatest of stats, to be sure. And comparing +/- on players of different teams is pretty pointless. However, that does not change the fact that Karlsson was absolutely horrific defensively this year. I can't think of many players, over the years, that looked worse than he looked defensively, when I watched him this year.

I wouldn't take Karlsson for free with his current contract for 4 more years.

As good as he was offensively this year, I doubt if he would have added much to any team in the playoffs.

Although I might be completely wrong.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Cole436

Hughes should have been there over Makar. He had unbelievable season considering the support he had, as well Makar only played 60 games.

I didn't want to say it, because sour grapes, but yeah.


The Norris has been a reputation award in recent years, especially votes wise. It is hard to argue against Makar, but also he's yet to play 82. As good as he is, if you're always hurt it's bad for the team when youre as important as he is.

[Sylvanfan]

I'll be interested to see where Heiskanen finished. He had a really good season taking his game to another level.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I'll be interested to see where Heiskanen finished. He had a really good season taking his game to another level.

Yep.


The real truth is that the Norris is going to be an incredibly contested and controversial trophy for the next 8 - 10 years. I can't remember a time with so many highly touted and skilled defence men.

[Scornfire]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

You cannot sincerely believe this

EK's defensive game would be among the best on any of the teams currently in the playoffs, outside of Dallas, who have prime Heiskanen

Don't confuse optics and plus-minus with defensive acumen. Look at Johnny Gaudreau's drop in plus minus from last year's legendary +66 to this year's abysmal -33 - it is a TEAM stat and beyond that it's a ####ty stat

One actually has to play defense to be considered for their proficiency at it. Watched plenty of San Jose games the last 5 years, my BIL works for the team. Few players lose (read: abandon) their man as much as EK does

[jeffman]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

You cannot sincerely believe this

EK's defensive game would be among the best on any of the teams currently in the playoffs, outside of Dallas, who have prime Heiskanen

Don't confuse optics and plus-minus with defensive acumen. Look at Johnny Gaudreau's drop in plus minus from last year's legendary +66 to this year's abysmal -33 - it is a TEAM stat and beyond that it's a ####ty stat

Except Gaudreau is a floater in Columbus, where he was backchecking like a mofo last year under sutter

[Hockey_Ninja]

Karlsson is gonna win and people will have to deal with it. 100 points as a D-man is an incredible feet regardless of how bad he was defensively

[cannon7]

Norris is a pointless trophy if Karlsson wins.

[heep223]

Surprised no Zadorov, bull####

[Philly06Cup]

People who bash Erik Karlsson's defense = people who don't watch Erik Karlsson.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Norris is a pointless trophy if Karlsson wins.

I have always wanted an Orr award for most D points and the Norris for the best dman