23/24 Flames

[agulati]

Originally Posted by boogerz

Maloney already re-upped him on a one-way contract for the next two years at that amount.

I think the implication is that you are an order of magnitude off.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I bet other teams think Vladar is a lot better than his last season. A guy with experience who you can throw in for multiple games is valuable. Florida is paying Spencer Knight double that, and his numbers are comparable (his GAA is much worse in fact). Kings are paying Cal Peterson even more and he is worse. Toronto could use him if they could get rid of Murray and that would be a net gain for them.

He was .895 last year and .906 the previous year. At 2.2 per year that Contract hss him as a negative value asset. He has 55 career games with a sub 900 save percentage. He's fine a dozen in my opinion. If you can get a 7th for him...take it and run. Or better get away from Markstrom.

That extension never made sense to me.

[Enoch Root]

Ah yes, the ongoing all-Flames-players-are-worthless argument.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Ah yes, the ongoing all-Flames-players-are-worthless argument.

It not that flames players have no value, it's that many fans don't understand the impact that contract, recent performance and age have in value. Also 4 quarters isn't worth 1 dollar given that only 5 players can be on the ice. You almost always rather have single dollar vs the 4 quarters value wise.

Chucky got us huberdeau, weegar and ++ because of these factors. If it's a 24 year old rfa weegar and huberdeau we probably wouldn't get them both.

Same goes for current situation. Kadri and huberdeau don't have that much value given most recent performance, their ages and contracts. Performance next season could improve and spike their value a bit though.

Lindholm is a UFA with ine year remaining. He has value, but your probably top getting a top 20 prospect in the league. Same goes with backs, toffoli and tamev. All very good players but you won't get close to an equal equal young player back 1 for 1.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by traptor

It not that flames players have no value, it's that many fans don't understand the impact that contract, recent performance and age have in value. Also 4 quarters isn't worth 1 dollar given that only 5 players can be on the ice. You almost always rather have single dollar vs the 4 quarters value wise.

Chucky got us huberdeau, weegar and ++ because of these factors. If it's a 24 year old rfa weegar and huberdeau we probably wouldn't get them both.

Same goes for current situation. Kadri and huberdeau don't have that much value given most recent performance, their ages and contracts. Performance next season could improve and spike their value a bit though.

Lindholm is a UFA with ine year remaining. He has value, but your probably top getting a top 20 prospect in the league. Same goes with backs, toffoli and tamev. All very good players but you won't get close to an equal equal young player back 1 for 1.

LOL, okay dude. Maybe you'll do us all a favour and explain how player values work.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

LOL, okay dude. Maybe you'll do us all a favour and explain how player values work.

He just did.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

He just did.

No, he rambled. Using generic phrases to justify saying Flame players have little to no value isn't explaining how things are, it's presenting a garbage opinion. A dollar is better than four quarters - thanks. And saying Lindholm doesn't have a lot of value - LOL. Toffoli, Backlund and Tanev all have good value as well.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No, he rambled. Using generic phrases to justify saying Flame players have little to no value isn't explaining how things are, it's presenting a garbage opinion. A dollar is better than four quarters - thanks. And saying Lindholm doesn't have a lot of value - LOL. Toffoli, Backlund and Tanev all have good value as well.

The poster literally said those players have value.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

The poster literally said those players have value.

When you start your argument with "many fans don't understand" and then proceed to list obvious generic things that all serious fans understand, in order to justify a position that Flame players have little value, you deserve, and you're going to get, push back.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

When you start your argument with "many fans don't understand" and then proceed to list obvious generic things that all serious fans understand, in order to justify a position that Flame players have little value, you deserve, and you're going to get, push back.

Sorry if I made your ego feel belittled.

Your comment was inferring that everyone is ####ing on flames player value. I don't see any posters doing that. Rather I see many being realistic, so I thought I'd try and explain why. It is a forum after all. We're all posting our opinions, that is the whole point.

But I approach your pushback to get me back in line...

[Jake]

I wouldn’t pencil Coronato into the line up just yet. It won’t surprise me to see him in the AHL for some time, although I hope he proves me wrong.

Hire Conroy and Love
Move Tanev, Coleman and Vladar.
Explore moving Toffoli, but if the offers aren’t there hold until the deadline.
Explore moving Zadorov. I like him, but he’s gaff prone and I think the Flames could get some decent assets for him.
I’d love to move Kadri, but I know it won’t happen.
Re-sign Lindholm, Backlund and Lewis
Offer Phillips a one way 1-2 year contract.

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Toffoli
Mangiapane-Backlund-Phillips
Pelletier-Kadri-Dube
Lewis-Ruzicka/Zary-Duehr

Andersson-Weegar
Hanifin-Kylington
Zadorov/trade replacement-Stecher

Markstrom
Wolf

Follow the Dallas model of injecting some youth into a lineup of staple veterans.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by traptor

Sorry if I made your ego feel belittled.

Your comment was inferring that everyone is ####ing on flames player value. I don't see any posters doing that. Rather I see many being realistic, so I thought I'd try and explain why. It is a forum after all. We're all posting our opinions, that is the whole point.

But I approach your pushback to get me back in line...

My ego wasn't belittled, thanks.

This conversation started with a poster suggesting that Vladdar is worth maybe a 7th round pick. Which is pretty ridiculous, and that is what I responded to. And yes, there have been lots of posters ####ting on player values.

[dissentowner]

I think the only changes we see are Lucic, Ritchie, Lewis, and Stecher will be gone. I expect the rest to be back, Kylington included.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

My ego wasn't belittled, thanks.

This conversation started with a poster suggesting that Vladdar is worth maybe a 7th round pick. Which is pretty ridiculous, and that is what I responded to. And yes, there have been lots of posters ####ting on player values.

Vladar was 45th in save percentage , regressed from the previous year , and makes 2.2 million

What do you think his worth is ? He is a middle of the pack backup who is regressing / didn’t show progress making too much money for an average backup

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Vladar was 45th in save percentage , regressed from the previous year , and makes 2.2 million

What do you think his worth is ? He is a middle of the pack backup who is regressing / didn’t show progress making too much money for an average backup

He was solid the first half of the year, then struggled. That isn't uncommon. He has shown he can play in the NHL, and there are several teams struggling with their goalie situations.

He probably gets a 2nd or a 3rd if traded over the summer, and his value could increase if he starts the season well and a couple teams run into injuries.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

He was solid the first half of the year, then struggled. That isn't uncommon. He has shown he can play in the NHL, and there are several teams struggling with their goalie situations.

He probably gets a 2nd or a 3rd if traded over the summer, and his value could increase if he starts the season well and a couple teams run into injuries.

What team is giving up a 2nd or a third for an average overpaid backup ???

We traded a 3rd for a younger, cheaper , more upside Vladar a few seasons back. You think his trade value has improved since then with average seasons and getting paid more and being older ?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

What team is giving up a 2nd or a third for an average overpaid backup ???

We traded a 3rd for a younger, cheaper , more upside Vladar a few seasons back. You think his trade value has improved since then with average seasons and getting paid more and being older ?

At least the same, yes. Because he has continued to develop, and prove that he can play in the NHL. He had played what - 5 NHL games when we paid a 3rd for him?

You don't think his value is at least as high now as it was then? $2.2M is not a big cap hit - not enough to tank his value.

'older', LOL. He's 25

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

At least the same, yes. Because he has continued to develop, and prove that he can play in the NHL. He had played what - 5 NHL games when we paid a 3rd for him?

You don't think his value is at least as high now as it was then? $2.2M is not a big cap hit - not enough to tank his value.

'older', LOL. He's 25

Are we even talking about the same goalie here? He hasn't really continued to develop and yeah I think most teams think they have a guy like him on their AHL squad. He is definitely worth less now than what Treliving paid for him.

A good comparable IMO? The winning goalie in tonight's game who has had had several better seasons than either of Vladar's last two. And he has been on waivers multiple times in his career.

Vladar is not worthless. But a 2nd or 3rd, no way. Nor should this team be giving him starts next season to increase his trade value.

I don't see anyone saying the Flames players have no trade value. It's just given age, contract situation and recent performance, a lot of players value is at a low.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You don't think his value is at least as high now as it was then? $2.2M is not a big cap hit - not enough to tank his value.

'older', LOL. He's 25

With how tight the cap is for this coming season its a higher hit for a guy who really has shown to be a #2 goalie moreso thsn a 1B type. He's not that old so there could still be upside to him. But with the contract attached to him he's a lot tougher to trade than if he was a RFA.

[genetic_phreek]

Trades:

CGY
Alexander Holtz
2024 5th round pick (NJD)
NJD
Noah Hanifin

CGY
Fabian Lysell
Jakub Zboril
BOS
Elias Lindholm

CGY
Hendrix Lapierre
2024 3rd round pick (BOS)
WSH
Tyler Toffoli

CGY
2023 4th round pick (SEA)
2024 2nd round pick (NJD)
SJS
Daniel Vladar

Free Agent Signings:

Milan Lucic 1year $1,200,000

Huberdeau - Zary - Mangiapane
Dube - Kadri - Coronato
Pelletier - Ruzicka - Holtz/Lysell
Coleman - Backlund - Duehr
Lucic
Lapierre

Kylington - Andersson
Zadorov - Weegar
Zboril - Tanev
Gilbert

Markstrom
Wolf