[News] Darryl Sutter out as Head Coach. Maloney presser at 11:30 AM MT

[SuperMatt18]

I think Huberdeau's struggles are probably 40% himself, 30% on Sutter, and 30% on whatever the hell they were trying to do with him on the PP.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by SebC

Weird season.

Flames were 2nd in Corsi and Fenwick (all situations). Next coach needs to tweak the system to better translate possession into goals, and shot suppression into goal prevention, but not tear down what Sutter built.

If there was ever a season that showed that advanced stats are not meaningful, last year was it.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

If there was ever a season that showed that advanced stats are not meaningful, last year was it.

I wouldn't go that far.

I think the eye test had the Flames carrying a lot of games, but not getting it done.

Could advanced stats improve to the point where you get a greater shades of grey breakdown on scoring chances? For sure. Does the current system place too much wait on shot volume? I think so as well.

Sutter off the ice was a mess by all accounts, but he was coaching a system that had them in control most nights.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

If there was ever a season that showed that advanced stats are not meaningful, last year was it.

I guess the question is, since the President's Trophy winner, with the most wins in NHL history, went out in the first round. Does that show that regular statistics like "wins" are not meaningful.


Is anything meaningful?


......


...

[devo22]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Is a 60 point, second line centre considered overpaid at his contract in todays NHL, though? I think the 7X7 is more reflective of his career average stats than his career season last year.

Now if you're making an argument that teams need to be paying young players for what they're on track to become than veterans for what they've accomplished in the past, then I'm with you.

not in a nutshell, but when the guy is 32 years old and coming off an absolute mirage of a season, anyone who was signing him to a 7x7 contract was going to regret that sooner or later. Now as others have said, the point total itself isn't that big of a problem, it was more the apparent lack of effort in the second half of the season.

I still hope he'll come good for the Flames. I was in the minority hating this signing back then, but even I thought we'd get a few good seasons out of him before it goes downhill. Forget the term for a minute: does he look like a 7m/season guy right now? Absolutely not IMO. You pair that with the term and the fact that we traded a 1st for the pleasure of giving him this contract, and it becomes really bad. Hope he can turn it around.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by browntrout

While I am ok with Sutter getting canned because of the issues of the ice, I think alot of posters believe that a new coach will make this a better team, not so sure about that.

Say what you want about Sutter, but he got results...this team almost made the playoff with a team in my opinion that had too many player turnovers, and lost star players to free agency. the number one issue this year, goaltending, killed this team, coach can't fix that, and even with all the off ice drama, if this team makes the playoffs, less likely the coach gets canned.

Constant change is not good. Players need consistency, not a different approach every other year. Am I to believe that a coach like Mitch Love and rookies are going to lead this team to the promised land?

Do people really believe that Kadri and Huberdeau are cornerstone franchise players?, if so why was Florida so willing to let him go so easily.

This team should off rebuilt last year, it was a desperate move to try and salvage a horrible off season, I understand the move, but it did not work, time to rebuild, it's going to be forced on this management group very soon, whether they like it or not.

Just rebuild already, you have a new arena and now would be the perfect time

I want a rebuild too. But I’ve accepted that it won’t happen until “they’re dragged into it kicking and screaming” to quote Jiri. The last rebuild happened in 2013 when they had no choice. It could come sooner than later if Lindy and Backs still don’t have desire to sign back even with Sutter gone

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I wouldn't go that far.

I think the eye test had the Flames carrying a lot of games, but not getting it done.

Could advanced stats improve to the point where you get a greater shades of grey breakdown on scoring chances? For sure. Does the current system place too much wait on shot volume? I think so as well.

Sutter off the ice was a mess by all accounts, but he was coaching a system that had them in control most nights.

I’d agree here

In fact SebC said it well just a few posts back

Originally Posted by SebC

Weird season.

Flames were 2nd in Corsi and Fenwick (all situations). Next coach needs to tweak the system to better translate possession into goals, and shot suppression into goal prevention, but not tear down what Sutter built.

They could use their possession smarter.

Creating better chances (increasing cross o zone passes rather than just directing low prob shots on net) may well mean reducing the volume of shots so some stats may suffer correspondingly

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't know about that as he was probably celebrating with several teammates via text regarding yesterday's news. It's clear that he's not the only player on the team that was having a difficult time last season. When a career tenured Flame like Backlund dislikes the head coach so much he requests a trade you know that things are not good in the room.

Backlund, as a guy who apparently disliked the coach enough to be willing to uproot his whole life and say he would leave the team where he had earned his tenure, still showed up and competed hard every game when the Flames were in a fight for the playoffs. That's what a good teammate does. A bad teammate takes their displeasure into the game and sulks by throwing away plays, punishing all his fellow teammates and letting them down.

Maybe he was dealing with a bad injury or something, but Kadri's play at the end of the season looked a lot like poor sportsmanship and being a bad team member. He showed up well on a stacked team rolling on the way to a cup last season, but looked like he quit on the team when the chips were down this season. Not a guy I would be excited to play with again next season.

If I were in Backlund's position as a guy getting a bit old for the game, still wanting to chase my first shot at a cup, and playing my butt off on the ice every game despite hating the coach, I would not like Kadri after the way he played down the stretch and in those big games.

[browntrout]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

I want a rebuild too. But I’ve accepted that it won’t happen until “they’re dragged into it kicking and screaming” to quote Jiri. The last rebuild happened in 2013 when they had no choice. It could come sooner than later if Lindy and Backs still don’t have desire to sign back even with Sutter gone

I hope you are right, as much as I like Lindholm the player, is it really wise to reward him with a contract extension in excess of 8 million per year till he is 37 years old, on a season that saw the team miss the playoffs. Combine this with the Kadri and Huberdeau contracts and its just going to turn into too many bad contracts

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

If there was ever a season that showed that advanced stats are not always meaningful, last year was it.

Corrected.

There are always outliers, it doesn't invalidate the whole system.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by browntrout

I hope you are right, as much as I like Lindholm the player, is it really wise to reward him with a contract extension in excess of 8 million per year till he is 37 years old, on a season that saw the team miss the playoffs. Combine this with the Kadri and Huberdeau contracts and its just going to turn into too many bad contracts

It might already be a lost cause. If that's the case, I don't see a problem with extending Lindholm.

Plus, if it is a lost cause, this might drag them, kicking and screaming, into a rebuild that is actually longer than one season (unlike 2013).

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Now if you're making an argument that teams need to be paying young players for what they're on track to become than veterans for what they've accomplished in the past, then I'm with you.

Then you are in the minority here, although I think many are learning.

Every time some young player gets inked to a long term contract the majority of posters here heavily criticize it, saying it's a lotta money for an unproven player.

Just look at the threads where Brady Tkachuk signed, Stuzhle (I can't be bothered to check the spelling) and Thompson. Each has become huge value to the signing teams.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by SebC

Weird season.

Flames were 2nd in Corsi and Fenwick (all situations). Next coach needs to tweak the system to better translate possession into goals, and shot suppression into goal prevention, but not tear down what Sutter built.

For us to make the playoffs only 1 of 2 things had to happen. We needed below average goaltending or a below average powerplay. Instead we got the bottom 3 goaltending in the league and we put out an ECHL powerplay....

How Muller wasn't fired immediately after the season was over is unbelievable!

[mile]

Aren't all of the assistants on expiring contracts? No need to fire them

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by mile

Aren't all of the assistants on expiring contracts? No need to fire them

For what he put us through this season they should fire him! for optics

[FlamesAddiction]

I wonder about other coaches besides assistants. It might be time to bring in new goalie coaches as well, especially if Wolf makes the jump. I imagine Danielle Fujita is still on as the full-time skating coach as she was just hired full-time a year ago, and it sounds like the players love her.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I wouldn't go that far.

I think the eye test had the Flames carrying a lot of games, but not getting it done.

Could advanced stats improve to the point where you get a greater shades of grey breakdown on scoring chances? For sure. Does the current system place too much wait on shot volume? I think so as well.

Sutter off the ice was a mess by all accounts, but he was coaching a system that had them in control most nights.

System was fine in trying to win possession metrics and yes what he asked is going to win you game but you need to take it to the next level we have the stats now and it fit the narrative like you said lots of volume but the detailed breakdown showed not very dangerous and that's how the next coach can start from.

Huberdeau said his style didn't fit him and being 2nd last in cross ice passes confirms that. Now some of that might be a player afraid to make a mistake or a coach asking the team to take the shot.

Being one of the top teams to rush the puck in is great but again that's when the great stops and quantity took over just fire away.

Hopefully top players are treated like so and given ice time and opportunity. Looks like Tkachuk plays the entire power play.

The pp was just a disaster not sure what went wrong with that.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

Sigh. My greatest fear is back in play. Darryl Sutter goes to the Oilers after they bow out in hilarious fashion again this playoffs and he turns McDavid into a 200ft player.

Sutter would be unstoppable with their roster.

Don't forget McDiver not only McRef, he is also McGM. There is no way in hell he'll hire someone who'll forced him into 200ft game.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

System was fine in trying to win possession metrics and yes what he asked is going to win you game but you need to take it to the next level we have the stats now and it fit the narrative like you said lots of volume but the detailed breakdown showed not very dangerous and that's how the next coach can start from.

Huberdeau said his style didn't fit him and being 2nd last in cross ice passes confirms that. Now some of that might be a player afraid to make a mistake or a coach asking the team to take the shot.

Being one of the top teams to rush the puck in is great but again that's when the great stops and quantity took over just fire away.

Hopefully top players are treated like so and given ice time and opportunity. Looks like Tkachuk plays the entire power play.

The pp was just a disaster not sure what went wrong with that.

Valid points. It’s hard to know for sure what went wrong in the o zone. They used the same rim around the boards last year, difference last year was the D didn’t just shoot the puck. The wingers would get open low and then they’d continue their work in the o zone. This year just lacked creativity. I personally don’t believe that was all coaching. The blue liners took too many shots without traffic and it killed a lot of offence. I also think Huberdeau had a hard time adjusting to defence first, then still being creative and affective offensively.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Yeah the players have to take a lions share of the responsibility for what happened last year. Sutter, by all accounts, was not creating a great environment. But that doesn't excuse Kadri for being lazy, or plays to die on Huberdeau's stick, or Markstrom losing his game. I am happy they get a reset next year, hopefully that will allow them to feel more confident on the ice, but if the results are not there, then I will know where to assign the blame.