[News] Calgary, Alberta, & CSEC agree in principle to $1.223bn Event Centre + infrastructure

[Buzzard]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I listened to the Eric Francis spot on 960 from Friday. The way he was talking he really seemed to think if the UCP don’t win the deal likely doesn’t go through. Why else be such a huge vocal supporter of them?

I didn't hear the segment, and no offense to you, but I doubt that hack has any idea what the NDP has planned. Hell, I doubt the NDP has any idea.

Francis always takes the high drama, sky is falling guess. Sometimes he's right, but when you keep throwing #### against the wall, sometimes it sticks.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Your not wrong but how many employees does CSEC have?

Im guessing its north of 300.

Most are likely hovering just above minimum wage. For years I was making around $6/hr working there.

They’re not a critical employer.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Don’t be purposefully obtuse.
Excluding scouting, every single person listed is a full time job.
I’ve excluded scouting as I cannot confirm which are full time and which are not, although some definitely are full time.

This also is only hockey ops., and doesn’t count any sales, marketing, food and beverage, security, or other daily staff.
It’s hundreds of full time jobs, and once part time are added it’s thousands.

Virtually all of the event day staff (ushering, food and beverage, security, maintenance, etc.) are all part time, most close to minimum wage. It’s a second job.

[Enoch Root]

Obviously we all want better, higher paying jobs, but isn't it better to have a job than to not have a job? Kermitology: you said you worked there for 'years', so it couldn't have been that bad. And even if it were, was it not better to have that awful job than no job?

I am not saying that there won't be jobs without the Flames, or that a few dozen (or whatever) part time jobs are going to change the economy in any material way, I'm just saying that all jobs are a good job for somebody. So let's not pretend otherwise.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Most are likely hovering just above minimum wage. For years I was making around $6/hr working there.

They’re not a critical employer.

Im not including event staff. Nor is IANKK.

Again, its not a selling point for the arena that i'm making.

I think many (even "hard core") fans, would be surprised at how many full time jobs are involved with any high level sports team, but in particular CSEC who have 5 different entities under their banner.

Just offering information whilst not succumbing to the fury of the masses.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Virtually all of the event day staff (ushering, food and beverage, security, maintenance, etc.) are all part time, most close to minimum wage. It’s a second job.

Like everyone that works at McDonald's is wearing a paper hat and making minimum wage. Hot take. There is more to running a hockey team and a sports entertainment company than just "event day staff". Lot's of support staff required and they're all full time.

Why should anyone care how many people they employee full or part-time? Red herring. Care about revenue generation and the tax base, because this is where the city's revenue comes from. The Flames have a payroll in the same ballpark as that of Talisman Energy and generate revenues in the $150Mish range. That makes them a significant benefit to the local economy and tax base.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Virtually all of the event day staff (ushering, food and beverage, security, maintenance, etc.) are all part time, most close to minimum wage. It’s a second job.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Obviously we all want better, higher paying jobs, but isn't it better to have a job than to not have a job? Kermitology: you said you worked there for 'years', so it couldn't have been that bad. And even if it were, was it not better to have that awful job than no job?

I am not saying that there won't be jobs without the Flames, or that a few dozen (or whatever) part time jobs are going to change the economy in any material way, I'm just saying that all jobs are a good job for somebody. So let's not pretend otherwise.

I never worked there but I had many friends who did work at the dome and the impression I had was that the vast majority of employees there were university students or retired/semi retired old folks. It was perfect for students because pretty much all your shifts are evenings so it is easy to manage a full time school schedule and make a few bucks in the evening.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I

I think many (even "hard core") fans, would be surprised at how many full time jobs are involved with any high level sports team, but in particular CSEC who have 5 different entities under their banner.

The Roughnecks have like one, maybe two full time employees.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Im not including event staff. Nor is IANKK.

Again, its not a selling point for the arena that i'm making.

I think many (even "hard core") fans, would be surprised at how many full time jobs are involved with any high level sports team, but in particular CSEC who have 5 different entities under their banner.

Just offering information whilst not succumbing to the fury of the masses.

I realize it’s not the point you are making but IANKK is making the claim of thousands of jobs.

If you add it all up, CSEC is likely employing hundreds of people. And that is a good thing. But to tie back to the arena deal, many of those jobs are unrelated. Stamps are very separate. Who knows what the Wranglers long term future is, that team has moved constantly. And Roughnecks and Hitmen don’t need this kind of stadium.

An MLB team I have done some work with has 180 FTE’s. The owner who has other business interests calls it a small business. I’d imagine the Flames come in less than half of that.

But to your point, very few people are making the jobs argument here and would concede from a jobs perspective, it’s a poor ROI. If the city offered to build head offices for corporations, you would do much better.

But the Flames offer a ton of intangible benefits which IMO is nearly the entirety of the rationale.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Obviously we all want better, higher paying jobs, but isn't it better to have a job than to not have a job? Kermitology: you said you worked there for 'years', so it couldn't have been that bad. And even if it were, was it not better to have that awful job than no job?

I am not saying that there won't be jobs without the Flames, or that a few dozen (or whatever) part time jobs are going to change the economy in any material way, I'm just saying that all jobs are a good job for somebody. So let's not pretend otherwise.

Yeah, I worked there in high school and through the first part of university until the lockout.

It was a great job to make friends and you knew your schedule, but it paid terribly. When I started I made $5.25/hr.

I had to testify in court twice and nearly a third time but the crown decided not to proceed with trial.

Challenged Cory Sarich’s dad to a fight because I was tired of his drunken bull#### in 2004 when I was trying to de-escalate a fight between him and Flames fans.

My point is that while the Flames employ a lot of people, those jobs aren’t adding much to the local economy. Comparing the corporate subsidy of a hockey team to tax incentives for large businesses is vastly different.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Like everyone that works at McDonald's is wearing a paper hat and making minimum wage. Hot take. There is more to running a hockey team and a sports entertainment company than just "event day staff". Lot's of support staff required and they're all full time.

Why should anyone care how many people they employee full or part-time? Red herring. Care about revenue generation and the tax base, because this is where the city's revenue comes from. The Flames have a payroll in the same ballpark as that of Talisman Energy and generate revenues in the $150Mish range. That makes them a significant benefit to the local economy and tax base.

Wasn’t Talisman acquired a long time ago? What kind of arena deal did they get from the city?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

The Roughnecks have like one, maybe two full time employees.

Demonstrably and patently false. Not that it matters or has anything to do with the subject at hand.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Demonstrably and patently false. Not that it matters or has anything to do with the subject at hand.

How many full time employees exclusive to the Roughnecks do they have? Even the players aren't full time.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Yeah, I worked there in high school and through the first part of university until the lockout.

It was a great job to make friends and you knew your schedule, but it paid terribly. When I started I made $5.25/hr.

I had to testify in court twice and nearly a third time but the crown decided not to proceed with trial.

Challenged Cory Sarich’s dad to a fight because I was tired of his drunken bull#### in 2004 when I was trying to de-escalate a fight between him and Flames fans.

My point is that while the Flames employ a lot of people, those jobs aren’t adding much to the local economy Comparing the corporate subsidy of a hockey team to tax incentives for large businesses is vastly different.

Those jobs (and I used to have one) allow literally thousands of people in your city to pay their rent/mortgage and feed themselves.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Those jobs (and I used to have one) allow literally thousands of people in your city to pay their rent/mortgage and feed themselves.

I think the point he’s making is that they’re the easiest jobs to create and can be done without paying for an NHL hockey team.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I think the point he’s making is that they’re the easiest jobs to create and can be done without paying for an NHL hockey team.

I’m sure the support staff of CSEC appreciate how disposable their fellow citizens view their jobs.

And if it’s so easy to create minimum wage jobs, how easy is it to create 23 jobs that pay a combined $80M (+ coaches and executives - so probably closer to $90-95M).

I’m not suggesting it’s the primary reason to do this, but in point of fact, employing a few thousand little people and ensuring they can meet their basic needs does, in fact, contribute a lot to the local economy.

These athletes might make 400x the average wage, but they don’t buy 400x more stuff - even Jonathan Huberdeau can only buy so many Italian hypercars.

[Flame12]

https://insidetherink.com/report-the...and-wants-out/
Not sure if this is true but kind of hope it is!

[kermitology]

My point is that professional sport teams are not major economic drivers for a municipality. That’s been disproven time and again, but it’s trotted out every time we discuss this.

I just do not support corporate socialism for vanity businesses. The NHL bring in so much money they should have to rely on handouts, and I’m beyond shocked at how so many supposed fiscally responsible people are cool with this.

Never mind the fact that all this will do is further price regular fans out of tickets. I’m sure you’ll all enjoy your 40% premium as CSEC continues to take in handfuls of money.

[Wormius]

I am really just hoping that anyone who believes taxpayers giving a sports team hundreds of millions to provide a few menial jobs is great will never complain about government funded anything in the future.

Blue Ring? Peace Bridge? Library? Nope. A publicly-funded arena basically trumps everything. SaveCalgary and Cory Morgan are going to have to find new shticks.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Flame12

https://insidetherink.com/report-the...and-wants-out/
Not sure if this is true but kind of hope it is!

New arena would comfortably move the Flames into 1B+ dollars value territory so it makes sense.