[News] Calgary, Alberta, & CSEC agree in principle to $1.223bn Event Centre + infrastructure

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Low attendance events still cover some costs - unless they are virtually empty, making the staffing a negative on its own, having almost any event is better than a unused building. More is better, though in a city Calgary's size, they aren't going to have enough demand for daily events, like the bigger cities have.

Low attendance events really aren’t that great. Using up prime dates a year in advance is a last option kind of situation.

But you’re right a city like Calgary can’t fill up something this big regularly, which is just more evidence as to why this really is a Flames centric solution.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by getbak

You can look at the Hockey Ops page on the Flames website: https://www.nhl.com/flames/team/hockey-operations

There are 66 people listed, including the Wranglers staff. Of those, not all of them (especially the scouting staff) live and work in Calgary, and many (like the team dentist and doctors) are not likely full-time.

There's another 14 people listed on the Executives page (only Peter Hanlon is on both pages). These people are likely full-time and well-paid, and they'll all have staff working under them.

This doesn't include all the people who work in the ticket office, or the building operations and maintenance staff, who would be full-timers.

Yeah that looks like maybe 30 FT jobs. Most of whom probably do live here full time which is great.

I mean that’s great, those are good jobs for the local economy. Even the part time ones. But that’s a relatively small business, so to me it’s kind of a non factor.

[Demzy84]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Hard to separate having the Flames and having an events center. Without the Flames, does the city need an events center of this scale.

Revitalization is great for sure, but this is an inefficient way of spending money to achieve this. If it even does at all.

I’d be interested to see how many cities with a metro populations of 1.6M do not have some sort of an event center in their city.

Feel like if you want to be able to attract people to move here, you’d want them to be able to come to a city that they know they are able to attend a plethora of events for them and their families.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Demzy84

I’d be interested to see how many cities with a metro populations of 1.6M do not have some sort of an event center in their city.

Feel like if you want to be able to attract people to move here, you’d want them to be able to come to a city that they know they are able to attend a plethora of events for them and their families.

Wouldn’t almost all have a sports team attached? Seattle wasn’t replacing their arena until the Kraken came into the picture.

[carmenshoes]

Any idea when shovels will hit the ground?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by carmenshoes

Any idea when shovels will hit the ground?

No

[getbak]

Originally Posted by carmenshoes

Any idea when shovels will hit the ground?

Looking at the previous timeline, we seem to be back to where they were in December 2019: https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...ntre-agreement

Then, things stalled out due to COVID, so there wasn't a lot of progress in 2020, and the final deal was signed in the summer of 2021, with the design approved for development in late 2021. I believe they were planning to do the ground breaking in early 2022 before Murray pulled the plug.


Depending on how much work can be salvaged from the previous deal, I'd guess best-case scenario is groundbreaking next spring (about a year from now), and worst case (assuming it gets approved) could be as much as 2 years from now. I'd put the over/under line on August 1, 2024 for shovels in the dirt.

Puck drop probably in 2026 or 2027.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This is becoming such an overused and annoying post style.

YOU brought up the notion that a theatre or concert hall could serve a similar purpose. YOU provide some facts to back that up.

Event centres are FAR more popular for this purpose, for good reason. City council certainly wanted an event centre, and stated so, on numerous occasions. Then voted unanimously to approve this project. Prove them all wrong. Bring us some specific facts!

Maybe I don’t get it, but multiple posts complaining about a post/posting “style” while getting your back up when asked for something more than “I think!” as justification for why an arena is the best choice is pretty… I don’t know, it seems like a poor use of your energy when we’re just having a conversation and you don’t actually lose anything by saying “I don’t know.”

Here’s what we know:
- Economists are rarely “for” publicly funded arenas
- There is little/no evidence that they bring an economic benefit to a city
- There is a countless list of good-to-great, bustling neighborhoods/areas without an arena as the anchor (off the top of my head, areas in: Nashville, Portland, Seattle, SF, Los Angeles, even Calgary)
- There is also a long list of areas around arenas that are less than desirable or very dead (Saddledome obviously, plus arenas/stadiums/ballparks in SF and Oakland, I’m sure there are plenty more but I don’t really do stadium tourism)

You’re saying an arena is a better way than the examples I named to revitalize an area. How do I know a concert hall would do something similar? Because it brings people to the area. Tell me why your opinion overrides common knowledge.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Maybe I don’t get it, but multiple posts complaining about a post/posting “style” while getting your back up when asked for something more than “I think!” as justification for why an arena is the best choice is pretty… I don’t know, it seems like a poor use of your energy when we’re just having a conversation and you don’t actually lose anything by saying “I don’t know.”

Here’s what we know:
- Economists are rarely “for” publicly funded arenas
- There is little/no evidence that they bring an economic benefit to a city
- There is a countless list of good-to-great, bustling neighborhoods/areas without an arena as the anchor (off the top of my head, areas in: Nashville, Portland, Seattle, SF, Los Angeles, even Calgary)
- There is also a long list of areas around arenas that are less than desirable or very dead (Saddledome obviously, plus arenas/stadiums/ballparks in SF and Oakland, I’m sure there are plenty more but I don’t really do stadium tourism)

You’re saying an arena is a better way than the examples I named to revitalize an area. How do I know a concert hall would do something similar? Because it brings people to the area. Tell me why your opinion overrides common knowledge.

LOL. Okay, I'm convinced why that would be better than an arena.

This is why engaging with you is pointless - you will simply carry on, relentlessly, saying anything at all in order to try and make some sort of successful point.

You win - a concert hall would attract way more people to Victoria Park!

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You’re saying an arena is a better way than the examples I named to revitalize an area. How do I know a concert hall would do something similar? Because it brings people to the area. Tell me why your opinion overrides common knowledge.

We have the Jubilee and Jack Singer. The Jubilee doesn't attract anyone to the area when there isn't something going on and the area around the Jack Singer is more or less a wasteland with more homeless in the area than general public.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

LOL. Okay, I'm convinced why that would be better than an arena.

This is why engaging with you is pointless - you will simply carry on, relentlessly, saying anything at all in order to try and make some sort of successful point.

You win - a concert hall would attract way more people to Victoria Park!

Yeah, you whining about engaging with me while not even trying to do so honestly, so if you want to bail I’m not losing anything here.

This is just a conversation. I don’t care to convince you and I don’t actually expect you to convince me. I’m asking pretty fair questions, no? You don’t have to have all the answers, but I do expect the people proposing $1.2b for this thing to have some of those answers.

You don’t think that’s fair? You‘re just going to mock anyone and throw a fit when people ask those questions, ranting about “but they have to spend on infrastructure!!! stop posting like that!!!”? Why? What do you lose if someone asks for a little more justification from public spending than “trust us bro” or just plain old honesty?

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You’re saying an arena is a better way than the examples I named to revitalize an area. How do I know a concert hall would do something similar? Because it brings people to the area. Tell me why your opinion overrides common knowledge.

Calgary is doing all of the above for the Rivers District; Studio Bell opened in 2016, Arts Commons is undergoing a $270M expansion (funded by taxpayers) to add several theaters plus a future phase (estimated to cost another $200M+) to modernize existing facilities.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Yeah that looks like maybe 30 FT jobs. Most of whom probably do live here full time which is great.

I mean that’s great, those are good jobs for the local economy. Even the part time ones. But that’s a relatively small business, so to me it’s kind of a non factor.

Don’t be purposefully obtuse.
Excluding scouting, every single person listed is a full time job.
I’ve excluded scouting as I cannot confirm which are full time and which are not, although some definitely are full time.

This also is only hockey ops., and doesn’t count any sales, marketing, food and beverage, security, or other daily staff.
It’s hundreds of full time jobs, and once part time are added it’s thousands.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You win - a concert hall would attract way more people to Victoria Park!

A section of the old dome lower bowl should become a coke stage style Amphitheater outdoor music venue.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by RM14

A section of the old dome lower bowl should become a coke stage style Amphitheater outdoor music venue.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Yeah, you whining about engaging with me while not even trying to do so honestly, so if you want to bail I’m not losing anything here.

This is just a conversation. I don’t care to convince you and I don’t actually expect you to convince me. I’m asking pretty fair questions, no? You don’t have to have all the answers, but I do expect the people proposing $1.2b for this thing to have some of those answers.

You don’t think that’s fair? You‘re just going to mock anyone and throw a fit when people ask those questions, ranting about “but they have to spend on infrastructure!!! stop posting like that!!!”? Why? What do you lose if someone asks for a little more justification from public spending than “trust us bro” or just plain old honesty?

I have done none of those things - not even close. You start posting like a 10 year old when someone responds to you, while at the same time, you try to claim the moral high ground. It's exhausting, and frankly, it's childish.

Hack away, as you like to do - I won't reply again.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by RM14

A section of the old dome lower bowl should become a coke stage style Amphitheater outdoor music venue.

That’s a very cool idea

[Weitz]

I listened to the Eric Francis spot on 960 from Friday. The way he was talking he really seemed to think if the UCP don’t win the deal likely doesn’t go through. Why else be such a huge vocal supporter of them?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Don’t be purposefully obtuse.
Excluding scouting, every single person listed is a full time job.
I’ve excluded scouting as I cannot confirm which are full time and which are not, although some definitely are full time.

This also is only hockey ops., and doesn’t count any sales, marketing, food and beverage, security, or other daily staff.
It’s hundreds of full time jobs, and once part time are added it’s thousands.

Didn’t mean to strike a nerve. You are asserting the Flames team dentist is a full time position paid by the Flames? As well as all the other medical personnel?

If you go back and read what I said, I acknowledge the Flames provide for employment for the local economy, a good thing. I just suggest we keep the numbers in perspective compared to other businesses. And a vast majority of the Flames payroll goes to athletes, many of whom do not live here full time.

The Flames are welcome to make their financial statements public and then we could more closely estimate their non player payroll. If the argument for receiving this amount of taxpayer handout is all the jobs they create, then maybe they should. But I can do the math on HRR and how much goes to the players and rather quickly surmise they don’t have hundreds of FT employees on payroll. That would be more like MLB and NFL teams which are much bigger organizations.

Of course the arena will provide plenty of construction jobs. As would any other construction project.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I have done none of those things - not even close. You start posting like a 10 year old when someone responds to you, while at the same time, you try to claim the moral high ground. It's exhausting, and frankly, it's childish.

Hack away, as you like to do - I won't reply again.

I mean, you absolutely have, but your M.O. seems to be to deny saying something, have it quoted back to you, and then pretend it’s wildly different because of some pedantry and obsession over posting styles instead of just putting that weird stuff aside and having a normal conversation. We don’t need to hear about how familiar you are with the posting styles of 10 year olds, it’s a weird look.

It’s just arena talk. As soon as you’re going off about someone trying to claim moral high ground I think you’ve lost the plot. There are absolutely zero stakes here, and a couple of you seem to really, really struggle with that.