[News] Calgary, Alberta, & CSEC agree in principle to $1.223bn Event Centre + infrastructure

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I go to the done a fair bit but I usually just drink and don't spend much on snacks but what are these flam'n hotdogs you speak of? I enjoy spicy snacks.

If Flame Gimp is talking about the pocket dog, oh man, you've got to try it, it's amazing!

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by Jordan!

That’s how much the coyotes are paying to remediate some dirt on their site. Before paying $2 billion privately.

If this was a coyotes deal I’d never hear the end of it. The city and province were straight up swindled.

the city gets to own it, it's not like the flames own it for only 40m. The city will get like 2x what they paid in lease payments alone.

You can't have a major city in 2020's without a major event centre for concerts and sports teams. The alternative is flames leave, the saddledome gets demolished, a new building is built anyways but the city pays for 100% of it with no guarantee that a major tenant paying millions a year, moves in.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

If inflation isn’t a rear view mirror issue by the next election, Trudeau and Singh will be punted like it’s 4th and 50.

We’ll see. Poilievre is still trailing behind Trudeau for likability in Ontario, Quebec, BC, and with women. If he has a crappy campaign like O’Toole I think he loses. I’m hoping for a change federally though.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

The city owning it is good for the Flames. When someone says that you know they haven't been paying attention.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

If Flame Gimp is talking about the pocket dog, oh man, you've got to try it, it's amazing!

I must be an idiot because I've had the pocket dawgs before but never knew they had a spicy one.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

You are not wrong.

Now, tell me if you think I’m wrong about this:

If they held the exact same press conference tomorrow and announced they were spending all the arena money on homelessness, or the Green Line, or a train between Calgary and Edmonton, there would be 1000x more ####-flipping, because people don’t actually care about these sorts of issues unless they’re grandstanding over their opposition to arena projects.

I’ll hang up and listen to your answer.

Is grandstanding the right word? I am legit not sure at this point why there is so much vitriol towards this proposal.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I must be an idiot because I've had the pocket dawgs before but never knew they had a spicy one.

I don't know if they have a spicy one, cos I can't handle heat.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

the city gets to own it, it's not like the flames own it for only 40m. The city will get 2x what they paid in lease payments alone.

You can't have a major city in 2020's without a major event centre for concerts and sports teams. The alternative is flames leave, the saddledome gets demolished, a new building is built anyways but the city pays for 100% of it with no guarantee that a major tenant paying millions a year, moves in.

It would actually be better for the city to not own it and pay the lease like CSEC. The city is putting up 856 million dollars. CSEC’s lease payments are worth 356 dollars and are basically debt servicing. If the deal also follows the last one then CSEC gets all non-hockey revenue as well but the city apparently gave up the value of the naming rights for some reason.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

They built an arena, the NHL wanted to expand west (Vegas, Seattle) my guess is they'll be in on the next round of expansion. Funny you use the "omg big arena no nhl team so it's empty" line then you point to Quebec, which has Videotron Centre and stays active.

I'm not even totally against funding going to this project through the city and the province, it's just utterly hilarious that the deal is worse for the tax payer than it was four years ago. Multiple times over

"DERP DONT GO DERP"

Blame council for not agreeing to a 50/50 split of cost overruns when they had the chance, I guess.

Or blame the flames for wasting years on the Calgary Next pipe dream.

They can’t play in a condemned structure, and we can’t let 20k people go to a concert in one.

And on an individual tax burden level, you simply cannot care that much about this.

If you want an arena now, this is the price.

If you want it when the province has a population of 8M, that’s a bad faith argument.

But thanks for looking out for everyone else’s money - your concern is appreciated.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

You are not wrong.

Now, tell me if you think I’m wrong about this:

If they held the exact same press conference tomorrow and announced they were spending all the arena money on homelessness, or the Green Line, or a train between Calgary and Edmonton, there would be 1000x more ####-flipping, because people don’t actually care about these sorts of issues unless they’re grandstanding over their opposition to arena projects.

I’ll hang up and listen to your answer.

Lol I think the people who are pro arena would be very mad and then there would be a mixed reaction to whatever the proposal was. I bet if it was for homelessness and affordable housing, the ‘fiscal conservatives’ who were fine with the arena would flip their #### about government spending. I was fine with the last arena deal, this one is so much worse for the city.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

But thanks for looking out for everyone else’s money - your concern is appreciated.

Well as a multiple property owner in the city of Calgary and thus a tax paying citizen of Alberta I'm looking out for mine. I do blame Ken King and company for the insanely bad CalgaryNext and Murray Edwards for pulling out of the previous deal.

And on an individual tax burden level, you simply cannot care that much about this.

Posting on a message board my emotion level absolutely cannot be measured but I can care that much if I wish. You're welcome.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Lol I think the people who are pro arena would be very mad and then there would be a mixed reaction to whatever the proposal was. I bet if it was for homelessness and affordable housing, the ‘fiscal conservatives’ who were fine with the arena would flip their #### about government spending. I was fine with the last arena deal, this one is so much worse for the city.

One of my first posts in this thread was asking the so called fiscal conversations how they could justify like this deal. One person reply, his first bullet point was "I like the Flames"

All you need to know really.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Lol I think the people who are pro arena would be very mad and then there would be a mixed reaction to whatever the proposal was. I bet if it was for homelessness and affordable housing, the ‘fiscal conservatives’ who were fine with the arena would flip their #### about government spending. I was fine with the last arena deal, this one is so much worse for the city.

I was fine with the last one too.

For whatever reason, it fell apart.

Will my taxes go up because of this? No doubt.

But I’ve also been watching my taxes go up for my entire adult life, and never once has a tax increase come with a new arena.

This one does, and I can live with it.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by Bonded

It would actually be better for the city to not own it and pay the lease like CSEC. The city is putting up 856 million dollars. CSEC’s lease payments are worth 356 dollars and are basically debt servicing. If the deal also follows the last one then CSEC gets all non-hockey revenue as well but the city apparently gave up the value of the naming rights for some reason.

but the city can get money for every event, and the surrounding areas are going have major improvements , tourism, popularity maybe Olympics 1 day. Anyway you slice it this is great for the city, this city needs to catchup.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I was fine with the last one too.

For whatever reason, it fell apart.

Will my taxes go up because of this? No doubt.

But I’ve also been watching my taxes go up for my entire adult life, and never once has a tax increase come with a new arena.

This one does, and I can live with it.

At least this is an honest answer and not trying to spin it as something amazing for the city. I appreciate it more than world class city stuff.

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

but the city can get money for every event, and the surrounding areas are going have major improvements , tourism, popularity maybe Olympics 1 day. Anyway you slice it this is great for the city, this city needs to catchup.

CSEC gets the money from the other events. Flames games won’t drive tourism and concerts are negligible when most big acts will hit up Vancouver and Edmonton. It’s fine if you want an arena, it’s just a #### deal.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by zamler

Is grandstanding the right word? I am legit not sure at this point why there is so much vitriol towards this proposal.

There is not vitriol. There is scrutiny and criticism. If you don't know why people are criticising the deal, you clearly have not made an effort to read the arguments that people have made in the thread.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

It's simple but not grossly so.

You missed the point completely. Shocker.

So...you weren't complaining about the high ticket cost to attend something that you can choose not to attend?

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I go to the dome a fair bit but I usually just drink and don't spend much on snacks but what are these flam'n hotdogs you speak of? I enjoy spicy snacks.

I must confess, i haven't had a flamin hotdog in years, i don't know if they still sell them. It wasn't a pocket dog back then

[Flames_Gimp]

When I saw the press release i was very happy! The taxes are worth it to me. And either way the city needs to pay for a new arena, a new arena should have happened a long time ago, I'm a proud born and raised Calgarian and I'm embarrassed that we still use the arena built in 1983, and that Edmonton got it done 1st!

Calgary is an amazing city and Calgarians and Flames fans deserve this.

Some of my earliest memories included the battle of Alberta, and I couldn't imagine losing that great tradition!

Let's leave the losing history of the last 30 years of the Flames in the Saddledome behind and inject the excitement of a new building into this franchise and bring home the cup!

[midniteowl]

CSEC gets the money from the other events. Flames games won’t drive tourism and concerts are negligible when most big acts will hit up Vancouver and Edmonton. It’s fine if you want an arena, it’s just a #### deal.

With a new arena, why would big act hit up Edmonton instead of Calgary? Vancouver, I kinda see it but EDMONTON? Oh because of their West Mall?