Sutter is the problem

[GioforPM]

My goaltending coach comment wasn’t intended to be a drive by - just a short prediction. If you want reasons, fine.

They are doing, according to reports, a massive review of staff and no one is under contract except for Conroy, Maloney and Sutter. A massive review suggests they are unhappy with ongoing results, not just an off year. The goaltending staff has been here a long time - longer than most assistant coaches. Some scouts have been here longer but that’s about it. And goaltending has, stats or no, been inconsistent over the years. This audit may not have results but for a lot of management, a change might be seen as a positive.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

Pretty disappointing that Sutter is in Calgary and at the Wranglers game but hasn't had the balls to face the media after this years debacle. Where's the accountability for the coach?

His son plays for the team and I imagine he'd be there whether he were employed by the Flames or not.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

His son plays for the team and I imagine he'd be there whether he were employed by the Flames or not.

Still doesn't make the original statement untrue.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

Pretty disappointing that Sutter is in Calgary and at the Wranglers game but hasn't had the balls to face the media after this years debacle. Where's the accountability for the coach?

I'm sure there's more to it and he has been told not to until final decisions are made on coaching or something like that.

Maybe they want to hire a new GM, see if the 2 will work together and then speak to the media. Sutter might also be wanting to know the GM before he commits to continuing.

[Erick Estrada]

It would not shock me if Edwards has informed Maloney that Sutter is staying and this evaluation talk is nothing more than a smoke screen to make it look like the incoming GM actually decided to keep Sutter. Sutter is Edwards guy and Edwards is one of those guys that thinks he's always right. IMO the reason Sutter hasn't been available for interviews as that they know what type of questions will be asked and they don't want Darryl answering them in front of the media to make the situation look even more dysfunctional.

[Major Major]

I hope one thing that comes out of this audit is how the team deals with injuries. Yes, it is hockey culture to play through injuries, but it seems to me that, like many things, the Flames are one of the most regressive in this area. There are surely teams that take healing of players at the time of injury more seriously than this team.

Obviously, the poster boy for this is Monahan. But think about how this org has treated things like concussions. They literally tried to claim Wideman was concussed when he crosschecked that liney and then when asked why he contiued to play, just kinda shrugged.

Then there is the Trouba hit on Kadri. How that wasn't spotted and how he didn't go down the hallway is beyond me. Kind of gross that he finished that game. Like if Pavelski got up from his Dumba hit and wobbled off the ice to get out on the next shift, what would we think?

Then there is Andersson's comments after the season...

When I think about all the things that players could possibly be so pissed about when it comes to Sutter, this is it. Although the problem was there before he got there. If they are being pressured to play hurt, and that is the culture, we are Kevin Lowe Oilers, nothing more. Think of how mad Sourray was. Think about how mad Renney was. I can't think of anything else that would spur such bad blood towards the coach. This isn't just a he's a prick thing.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It would not shock me if Edwards has informed Maloney that Sutter is staying and this evaluation talk is nothing more than a smoke screen to make it look like the incoming GM actually decided to keep Sutter. Sutter is Edwards guy and Edwards is one of those guys that thinks he's always right. IMO the reason Sutter hasn't been available for interviews as that they know what type of questions will be asked and they don't want Darryl answering them in front of the media to make the situation look even more dysfunctional.

Actually, I totally expect the Flames to have whomever the new GM is fire Sutter. I would be absolutely shocked if he is back from what has been said.

[Wastedyouth]

I hope the Flames do a thorough review of the scouting staff. What a mediocre group they are.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

I hope the Flames do a thorough review of the scouting staff. What a mediocre group they are.

What? I think our scouting staff is actually the strongest part of this organization.

[Muta]

Yeah, they have been really good with later-round picks, which is basically the wild west at those stages of the draft. I don't think the scouting staff is bad at all.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

I hope the Flames do a thorough review of the scouting staff. What a mediocre group they are.

Maybe on the pro side.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

What? I think our scouting staff is actually the strongest part of this organization.

In the post Sutter era under Tod Button the amateur scouts have been really good.

From 2011 (First season post Sutter as GM to 2022) as per the Hockey Prospecting Team Draft Success tool they rank:

NHLers Drafted (200 NHL GP): 12 (T-5th)
Stars Drafted (Forward over 0.7 PPG career, dman over 0.45 PPG career): 4 (T-4th)
Skaters Drafted: 67 (T-24th)

Also the only team to draft 2 stars outside of the first two rounds (Gaudreau and Fox).

The problem has not been the drafting, the problem has been a lack of picks.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

What? I think our scouting staff is actually the strongest part of this organization.

They are horrible. In the last 10 years, 4th round or later they have hit (played 80+ games, or approx in the NHL) on ONE guy. Mangiapane.

Rangers - 3
Kings - 9
Sens - 5
Detroit - 2
Anaheim - 3
New jersey - 5
Buffalo - 7
Minny - 5
Winnipeg - 4
Nashville - 5
Florida - 4
Carolina - 4
Edmonton - 5
Toronto - 5
Montreal - 4
Chicago - 3
Columbus - 4
Washington - 2
Philly - 2
Colorado - 2
St Louis - 4
Vegas - 0 (they havent been around for 10 years)
Dallas - 2
SJ - 4
Pitt - 2
Tampa - 4
Boston - 6


They are only beating the team that has only been around for 5 years.

Pick any time frame, the Flames come out looking very poorly at drafting.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

In the post Sutter era under Tod Button the amateur scouts have been really good.

From 2011 (First season post Sutter as GM to 2022) as per the Hockey Prospecting Team Draft Success tool they rank:

NHLers Drafted: 12 (T-5th)
Stars Drafted: 4 (T-4th)
Skaters Drafted: 67 (T-24th)

Also the only team to draft 2 stars outside of the first two rounds (Gaudreau and Fox).

The problem has not been the drafting, the problem has been a lack of picks.

Oh man, I wish I had access to that before I went and manually counted. Haha.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Oh man, I wish I had access to that before I went and manually counted. Haha.

Honestly it's a great tool.

Byron Bader is a Flames fan and I'm sure he's lurking on this site here somewhere. I'd have no issues if the Flames brought him in as part of their data team, his model and data visualizations make it very easy to look at prospects and team's drafting habits.

Also like that his definition of an NHLer is 200 games. Really if you are playing 60-80 NHL games you're weren't a bad pick...but really you probably also didn't bring anything that wasn't replacement level via UFA.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Actually, I totally expect the Flames to have whomever the new GM is fire Sutter. I would be absolutely shocked if he is back from what has been said.

Why not fire him now then? Maloney was in the player interviews. He knows what's going on. Why burden the incoming GM with the situation?

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Why not fire him now then? Maloney was in the player interviews. He knows what's going on. Why burden the incoming GM with the situation?

At the very least you give the new GM the power to make the final decision. Even if it has already been made, it gives the impression that he/she possesses final authority on hockey matters whether it is true or not. It would surprise me if the owners are willing to cut bait and walk away from a pricey contract though.

On the other hand, I really despise the fact that some players are threatening to not play if Sutter is back. We all know that when it really comes down to it, the players are going to show up instead of facing fines fallout from teammates etc.

What we don't know is whether or not they will be giving a complete effort on the ice if Sutter is back. If it was me, I would not want those players as teammates after this at all regardless of the outcome with the coach.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Why not fire him now then? Maloney was in the player interviews. He knows what's going on. Why burden the incoming GM with the situation?

Because some candidates may still want to keep Sutter (Conroy?) and some might not. It will definitely be an item discussed at length in each candidate's interview.

Maybe Edwards has said because of the 8 million or other reasons the new GM has to give Sutter one year before considering replacing him.

[GioforPM]

Assuming Sutter went over the line this year and players are resentful, but also knowing he dragged a great year out of a lot of players the year before, I wonder if they don't give him a year to sort things out with the players, or at least the off-season/beginning of the season.

[FlamesAddiction]

I am still 50-50 that he actually comes back. The fact he is still around doesn't mean anything to me and I don't think there is a hurry. There are still a lot of teams playing right now, so they may be waiting to see what candidates will be available, or to get permission to talk to personnel from other teams.

There is no point in firing him until they name a GM, then the GM can decide what they think is best.