2023 Formula 1 Season Thread

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

Did Button bring some NASCAR to F1?

This statement is 100% accurate. However, I don't know if it was Button or Liberty Media who brought NASCAR to F1.

One of the big knocks on NASCAR lately is it's too much of the contrived drama late in the races, mostly for TV purposes. I've seen more phantom debris cautions in the past couple years than I can remember.

There is a push amongst purists to get rid of stage breaks and overtime. At the very least going to single file restarts that aren't the initial start or the restart after a stage. NASCAR rarely red flags the races and the end result of this is the pace car damn near gets the bonus point for leading the most laps. The Xfinity race I attended this year had 69/200 caution laps.

Were there too many red flags last night? Possibly.

Would I prefer a race stoppage over the pack circulating for multiple laps behind the safety car? Absolutely.

There will be "bad" races, either due to weather, somebody running out of talent, or a team nailing the setup and lapping up to 4th. That's the nature of racing.

I would not be surprised to see a change to the sporting regulations that any red flags with less than 5 laps remaining are to utilize the rolling start procedure. FIA needs to define a restart zone on the pit straight and the leader fires anywhere inside that zone, no overtaking until they cross the finish line.

[dammage79]

I stopped watching Nascar the 1st race they did the stages of Daytona. They ruined their own sport. Dummies. A lot of ppl may thinks it's boring to run a straight 500 mile race but I don't. IMO their sweet spot was just before they went to the Jimmy Johnson championship Era points system.

Nascar shot themselves in the face.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by FLAMESRULE

FFS. It's so stupid being able to work on the car under Red Flags. Just kills so much strategy opportunity etc. The race is halted...that means no work!!

I will die on this hill.

The challenge is that usually when a red flag is thrown all of the drivers have driven through a bunch of debris at least once.

There's no great answer. I do wonder if there should be a 1 lap countback for these red flag restarts...it's probably another damned if you do/don't, but it sucks to get screwed for pitting under a preceding SC/VSC. There is some logic in it as it works that way for a lap 1 restart, though I don't think we've had many of those since the early 2000s.

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

It would appear the general consensus is that the red flags, all of them, are being lambasted by media/fans but I just don’t see it. I thought they were the correct decision.

Do these people not remember Massa at Hungary? You take an object to the face at 200mph and you’re lucky to survive. That gravel absolutely needed to be cleaned up and doing it in 60s spurts between laps un SC is not effective.

And Mags’ crash, same thing. Unless you effectively end the race by announcing you’ve no intention to restart at all because there’s not enough time to clean up the debris. But then what happens if a car gets a puncture from the debris and loses out because of it? Teams would be just as pissed.

The only argument I agree with is that they should look at whether or not red flag standing starts are safe that far into a race because of how dirty the non racing line gets with marbles from the tires.

Sainz deserved that penalty. Bad luck for him that the pack was bunched up but thems the breaks. They should also review Gasly coming back on track like a maniac without waiting. That’s a good way to get yourself killed.

Too bad about Albon. Not only for him and Williams but also his crash neutralized what might have been a fight between max and Lewis/George. I can’t imagine they keep him behind for long but you never know.

I still think field spread should be a key factor when deciding SC vs Red Flag. Early in the race the field is bunched very quickly with no unlapping necessary. It's more like cleaning up in 2 minute spurts, as SC laps tend to be like 50% longer. It seemed like they announced the 10 minutes to 1st restart pretty much immediately, so that cleanup was gonna be pretty darn fast either way.

Later on in the race the field tends to be way more spread with some lapped cars, so it take several laps/minutes to create a safe work environment, at which point it would simply be faster to do a red flag.

Great point on the dirty racing line. Drivers also have way less to lose at that point, so everyone from 4th-15th is super aggressive.


I think the silliest thing was the final formation lap restart. The countback implies that the events of the uncompleted sector don't count...except some of them do. It's another damned if do/don't situation, but there is nothing wrong with ending the race early when there will be no chance for any more competitive running.

A bit of a full circle thing - Alonso's 2nd career podium was in Brazil 2003, where Webber had a massive crash, and then Alonso had an even bigger one by running into the debris zone too fast, leading to a red flag and no restart...Controversy whether Fisi or Raikkonen won, but Alonso ended up keeping his 3rd despite crashing out and causing the end of the race.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

^^^ yeah good point about the aggression with late red flags. I heard it mentioned by one of the drivers I think. With only a few laps left, everyone knew that what you gained/lost on the restart was likely to be your finishing position so they all decided to just ####ing send it with reckless abandon.

[FLAMESRULE]

Alrighty...Aussie GP Race Results are in!

Dammage79 wins the week with 18pts and 3 correctly slotted and 6/10 picks. Fuzz was second with 14pts and 2&6.

Bizaro86 maintains his lead at the top, but only by 1pt over Fuzz and 2 pts over woob in 3rd place. 6pts covers the Top 6.

Results

Spoiler!

Pics from Mrs. FLAMESRULE...while I'm stuck in YYC...there big and I'm too lazy to resize, lol.

Spoiler!

Spoiler!

Spoiler!

[FLAMESRULE]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

The challenge is that usually when a red flag is thrown all of the drivers have driven through a bunch of debris at least once.

There's no great answer. I do wonder if there should be a 1 lap countback for these red flag restarts...it's probably another damned if you do/don't, but it sucks to get screwed for pitting under a preceding SC/VSC. There is some logic in it as it works that way for a lap 1 restart, though I don't think we've had many of those since the early 2000s.





I still think field spread should be a key factor when deciding SC vs Red Flag. Early in the race the field is bunched very quickly with no unlapping necessary. It's more like cleaning up in 2 minute spurts, as SC laps tend to be like 50% longer. It seemed like they announced the 10 minutes to 1st restart pretty much immediately, so that cleanup was gonna be pretty darn fast either way.

Later on in the race the field tends to be way more spread with some lapped cars, so it take several laps/minutes to create a safe work environment, at which point it would simply be faster to do a red flag.

Great point on the dirty racing line. Drivers also have way less to lose at that point, so everyone from 4th-15th is super aggressive.


I think the silliest thing was the final formation lap restart. The countback implies that the events of the uncompleted sector don't count...except some of them do. It's another damned if do/don't situation, but there is nothing wrong with ending the race early when there will be no chance for any more competitive running.

A bit of a full circle thing - Alonso's 2nd career podium was in Brazil 2003, where Webber had a massive crash, and then Alonso had an even bigger one by running into the debris zone too fast, leading to a red flag and no restart...Controversy whether Fisi or Raikkonen won, but Alonso ended up keeping his 3rd despite crashing out and causing the end of the race.

I just feel that a Red Flag stops the race as it was just prior to incident. So if you have a big enough issue to stop the race, then the pit work should stop as well. I would propose that no work be allowed unless there is a CLEAR safety issue...so I agree, kind of, with being able to work on a car to make sure it can run safely. Ex. show a drop in tire pressure, spike in cooling, part hanging on etc, and only be able to replace like for like (can't go hard to soft etc.). If you're on old rubber, tough break, but you can't change till the race resumes under SC/VSC/FCY.

It would improve the racing, but having a bit more uncertainty...aka safe chaos. I also FAR prefer a red flag in the last 10-15 laps to at least try and get a race to finish under green. Or at least give it 1 shot...because your points on aggressiveness does bring up issues.

One thing not mentioned, and likely a big reason why teams may not like, red flag to a green finish scenario is implications under the cost cap. Drivers being too risky could cost the team ALOT of $$...see. Sainz/Alpine.

[speede5]

F1 is in a tough position right now trying to satisfy the purists and not make big changes but also to try and improve the racing without becoming too gimmicky. And the cars are managed so precisely there's no wiggle room if things go haywire in a race.

All the work under red baffles me and maybe 20 years ago it wasn't such a big deal but with the gains made now with tire changes it seems like an unfair advantage as we've seen many times with cars pitting just before and then getting screwed when others get a free stop.

I don't understand why one red flag ended with a standing start and the next a flying start. Granted I was watching on my phone at a bar with no audio. Maybe they explained it. If the first red had resumed on a flying start we would have a much cleaner run to the finish and it would be more fair to all who had at that point earned their position. I was also surprised they gave back positions to cars that had been knocked off track, that almost never happens.

They are so entrenched in running the race distance and counting every lap it really gets fd up when something like this happens. Throw some gas in under red and do a green white checkers!

[DoubleK]

The finish line in Australia is like 10m in front of the #1 grid slot.

Having a standing start for 10m is absurd, thus the rolling start procedure.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by speede5

F1 is in a tough position right now trying to satisfy the purists and not make big changes but also to try and improve the racing without becoming too gimmicky. And the cars are managed so precisely there's no wiggle room if things go haywire in a race.

All the work under red baffles me and maybe 20 years ago it wasn't such a big deal but with the gains made now with tire changes it seems like an unfair advantage as we've seen many times with cars pitting just before and then getting screwed when others get a free stop.

I don't understand why one red flag ended with a standing start and the next a flying start. Granted I was watching on my phone at a bar with no audio. Maybe they explained it. If the first red had resumed on a flying start we would have a much cleaner run to the finish and it would be more fair to all who had at that point earned their position. I was also surprised they gave back positions to cars that had been knocked off track, that almost never happens.

They are so entrenched in running the race distance and counting every lap it really gets fd up when something like this happens. Throw some gas in under red and do a green white checkers!

The giving positions back has a pretty strong precedent from last year at Silverstone.
Essentially if the accident that causes the red flag happens before all the cars can go through the sector 1 timing point then the argument is that they can't fairly evaluate who had/hadn't gained positions so they put them back in order (missing any cars that can't carry on...Alpine....)

[FLAMESRULE]

Quick Reminder...the Baku race (Apr 28-30) is when the pool closes for those wanting a shot at the prizes (https://www.davidtyersart.com/)...I have $ from 14/17 people, so thats rad.

Without names, a note that 2 of the current Top 3 are not in for prizes

woob...I still have your artwork from last season as well...gonna look good on my wall

[dammage79]

I won a week? Cool beans. Mercs are going to muck my system up if they've found pace again. Of course I could just swap them out with where I'd slot Ferrari.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by FLAMESRULE

I just feel that a Red Flag stops the race as it was just prior to incident. So if you have a big enough issue to stop the race, then the pit work should stop as well. I would propose that no work be allowed unless there is a CLEAR safety issue...so I agree, kind of, with being able to work on a car to make sure it can run safely. Ex. show a drop in tire pressure, spike in cooling, part hanging on etc, and only be able to replace like for like (can't go hard to soft etc.). If you're on old rubber, tough break, but you can't change till the race resumes under SC/VSC/FCY.

It would improve the racing, but having a bit more uncertainty...aka safe chaos. I also FAR prefer a red flag in the last 10-15 laps to at least try and get a race to finish under green. Or at least give it 1 shot...because your points on aggressiveness does bring up issues.

One thing not mentioned, and likely a big reason why teams may not like, red flag to a green finish scenario is implications under the cost cap. Drivers being too risky could cost the team ALOT of $$...see. Sainz/Alpine.

Let's meet in the middle and say you can change tires, but you cannot change compounds. There are always winners/losers in any race control event, but I think no changes has the potential for the most severe 'screwing' - like if you're on lap 16 of a planned 18 lap stint on softs and there's a red flag...you're dropping right to the back of the grid (kinda like getting a 5 second penalty in a race that isn't even really restarting).

IMO there's still too much ambiguity with being able to do other work on your car only if it's damaged. The available adjustments are pretty limited to begin with, so I don't mind a free for all.

[DoubleK]

I think they need to adopt Red Flags like the World of Outlaws, you can do anything EXCEPT change tires.

[bizaro86]

I've been pretty pleased with the results of picking first - I haven't forgotten yet, which was my primary goal. So I'll open it up for next week in Baku.

Verstappen
Perez
Alonso
Hamilton
LeClerc
Russell
Saintz
Stroll
Gasly
Ocon

[KelVarnsen]

It's race week!

[FLAMESRULE]

I love the Baku race, maybe my favorite race of the year. Usually some drama, see Hamilton magic button, Vettel intentionally hitting Hamilton, Russell sucking up a manhole cover, Stroll finishing P2, etc.

In hilarious news, Mazespin is suing Canada.

"The court documents claim that the sanctions 'catastrophically reduce' his eligibility for a return to F1 soon, with the Canadian Grand Prix contracted to remain part of the schedule until at least 2031"

Hmmmm... pretty sure it's you being legit the worst F1 driver in a decade makes your return unlikely.

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/10...ia-canada-war/

[KelVarnsen]

New Sprint Race format.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...sion/10460437/

Friday
FP1
Qualifying (Race)

Saturday
Qualifying (Sprint Race)
Sprint Race

Sunday
Race

[Sylvanfan]

Not knowing how far in advance they knew that the Chinese GP would get shelved, or the logistics of moving the Baku race ahead a week. But it seems strange to have nothing for three weeks than a brutal back to back with this race than off to Miami.

[DoubleK]

I have a weird feeling that drivers gonna be in the wrong grid slots.

[DoubleK]

Fernando Alonso is a Swifty?