[News] Calgary, Alberta, & CSEC agree in principle to $1.223bn Event Centre + infrastructure

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by zamler

The personal bitch fest my politics is better than yours thread.

How about we be happy a new arena just might be built and IMO money well spent.

Sorry, we got tired of you complaining about it in the actual politics thread, so we brought it here.

Just give us one thread without complaining about what's in the thread. Just one. You can do it.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by zamler

The personal bitch fest my politics is better than yours thread.

How about we be happy a new arena just might be built and IMO money well spent.

Just stop thinking this is a bad idea and start thinking it's a good idea everyone!

[Manhattanboy]

But it is a good idea.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Sorry, we got tired of you complaining about it in the actual politics thread, so we brought it here.

Just give us one thread without complaining about what's in the thread. Just one. You can do it.

Can you just put me on ignore already. Please? You can do it.

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

But it is a good idea.

I can think of way worse ways to spend public money.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

It's not the same thing because city budgets don't operate with a savings plan. They spend what they take in because that is the mandate. Taxpayer money should fund public projects. This isn't some sort of university endowment. They are obligated to spend the money taken in from taxes, otherwise they could not justify having the tax rate that exists.

I know how city budgets work, but this still isn’t even a case of choosing between a photo copier and new chairs with this allegedly unallocated money. It’s more like a choice between obnoxious rims for Michael’s Sebring or hiring another security guard because the Scranton Strangler has been active in the area.


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[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by zamler

Can you just put me on ignore already. Please? You can do it.

Too much material. Can't give that up.

Originally Posted by zamler

I can think of way worse ways to spend public money.

Name one worse way a city has spent 1.2 billion dollars.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I know how city budgets work, but this still isn’t even a case of choosing between a photo copier and new chairs with this allegedly unallocated money. It’s more like a choice between obnoxious rims for Michael’s Sebring or hiring another security guard because the Scranton Strangler has been active in the area.


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Sharp was very clear that the vast majority of the city contribution was already allocated to this project. I'm just using her words. It's likely true because the deal was already approved and then rescinded. So, it's likely they were obligated to spend this toward some sort of project around a facility.

So yeah, the money was already spent.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Sharp was very clear that the vast majority of the city contribution was already allocated to this project. I'm just using her words. It's likely true because the deal was already approved and then rescinded. So, it's likely they were obligated to spend this toward some sort of project around a facility.

So yeah, the money was already spent.

I’m sure the city accountants are all super relieved that they don’t have figure out how to deal with a changing timeline on a capital budget allocation because that sounds like it’s probably unprecedented and impossible and the only other option would be to light the money on fire in a city furnace somewhere but then they’d spend a dollar less on the gas bill which they already precisely budgeted because they do budget zero and that change would ruin everything so maybe they’ll have to hire an engineer to determine how much to turn the thermostat up to offset the difference but then another accountant has to figure out how much cash to keep out of the furnace to pay for the engineer but this task wasn’t anticipated so the accountant might get a half hour of overtime which will make her boss commit seppuku because her department failed to achieve budget zero.


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[boogerz]

Aside from the horribly negotiated funding split and all parties heavily subsidizing Edwards/CSEC, I don't see how this deal gets approved. It's technically a megaproject now and we all know how smoothly megaprojects go...10-15% contingency on just the arena build would be an additional $100M. Who is bearing the burden of cost overages?

Personally, I'd rather have five central libraries (or any other combination of social benefits) than a single $1BN+ private-use arena.

Also, the level of contempt that Edwards demonstrates towards Calgary is interesting. The city and province are gifting you almost a billion dollars for your personal pet project and you can't even be arsed to fly into town for a day to smile and wave at all the people you hosed...

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Sharp was very clear that the vast majority of the city contribution was already allocated to this project. I'm just using her words. It's likely true because the deal was already approved and then rescinded. So, it's likely they were obligated to spend this toward some sort of project around a facility.

So yeah, the money was already spent.

The city just jacked user fees across the board in the budget 5 months ago, jacked them at a rate much higher than the 1% a year increase the Flames are facing for rent.

Transit fees - 2.5% a year each year for the next 4 years

Garbage and recycling - 2% a year each year for the next 4 years

Recreational facility fees (presumably for those not using the “community” rink) - 3% a year each year for the next 4 years.

The fee to spread your dead family members ashes went up 4% in one year.

They jacked user fees across the board to justify the “lower” tax increase they brought in. But at least they had the slush fund for the Flames/Wranglers/Hitmen practice facility, I mean “community arena”

They could have easily used this 567 million dollars to reduce or eliminate those user fee increases but instead it went to a private company.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

When it extends beyond basic services and city maintenance, then yeah, I think it's socialism.

This is socialism. Call it corporate socialism if you want, but it's still the same idea.

Don’t fall for it. Just take the petty condescending comment and move on.

[rage2]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The exact same group that paid for 70% of the arena in Winnipeg still owns that arena and the Winnipeg Jets.

True North was going broke, and got a lot more funding after the fact.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...ntre-1.1026604

[Aarongavey]

If the city just slapped a 70 dollar ticket tax on each ticket, presuming 18,000 fans a game and 45 games a year they could recoup the 567 million in 10 years. Maybe that could be an idea to make it a user pay thing like many other city services.

If you spread out the ticket tax to Wranglers and Hitmen games, you could probably lower it to 55 bucks a ticket or so.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Name one worse way a city has spent 1.2 billion dollars.

The city isn't spending 1.2 billion dollars.

But you already know that.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by rage2

True North was going broke, and got a lot more funding after the fact.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...ntre-1.1026604

Ya that is not what that article says. But I will concede they gave them a revenue stream of 4 million dollars a year. Maybe the City can rip up this deal and just give the Flames 4 million a year to stay in the Saddledome for the next 30 years.

[NewFan]

I think this city needs new entertainment centre and a new entertainment district for sure.
I understood city's half of money will be spent for the district development and half for the arena. If all was spent for arena then may be it's not so good deal.
I'm sure CSEC getting good deal as they will get some additional income from real state rent, or from other activities but they will pay taxes from that income right?
If CSEC doesn't get that extra incomes, some other private company will earn income.
For tax payers will it that different if CSEC gets that money or other companies when they pay taxes from their income?

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by UnitedFlames

The guys giving Weegar credit!

"Weegsy what you do, 11 days it took him to figure it out"

https://twitter.com/user/status/1651001569834602496

Big Z is the best.

[iamca]

It’s about damn time, now get some shovels in the ground already!

John Bean should not be speaking to the media, ever. His nervous twitch scratching his chin and how unpolished he is as a public speaker is strikingly bad.

The politicians were tough to take and I’ll admit that I am mostly disconnected from Calgary and Alberta politics, but holy crap that press conference was painful.

[sharkov]

The new arena ain’t cheap. Oiler fans ought to know, they paid for it

[GGG]

Originally Posted by NewFan

I think this city needs new entertainment centre and a new entertainment district for sure.
I understood city's half of money will be spent for the district development and half for the arena. If all was spent for arena then may be it's not so good deal.
I'm sure CSEC getting good deal as they will get some additional income from real state rent, or from other activities but they will pay taxes from that income right?
If CSEC doesn't get that extra incomes, some other private company will earn income.
For tax payers will it that different if CSEC gets that money or other companies when they pay taxes from their income?

Remember that Arenas don’t really create new economic activity they move economic activity within a city. So if the goal is to revitalize an area to create a vibrant area it can do that if done very carefully.

The argument that this increases the tax rates of someone doesn’t really
Work as that tax base would generally be somewhere else in the city. Even if people start looking a marginal benefits of the few extra concerts it doesn’t offset the city investment.

Like the deal because you feel having the opportunity to go to flames games and concerts and the spirit the flames game brings to the city is worth some nominal amount of money which is meaningless to you overall level of taxation.

Don’t try to justify with the economics.