Sutter is the problem

[BoLevi]

I assume Wolf is on the big club this coming season, and I'm terrified that Sutter is going to make a mess of the kid.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

I assume Wolf is on the big club this coming season, and I'm terrified that Sutter is going to make a mess of the kid.

Yeah he sure wrecked Kipper and Quick.

[redmile04]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

I assume Wolf is on the big club this coming season, and I'm terrified that Sutter is going to make a mess of the kid.

I would agree and think the same if the position wasnt goalie, Sutter makes good goalies look great. Kipper, Quick, Markstorm all had their best seasons with Sutter.

[Toonage]

Wolf wouldn't be a mess, he'd be bored. Sutter would never play him.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Wolf wouldn't be a mess, he'd be bored. Sutter would never play him.

Who is going to let in 2 goals on the first 6 shots if Markstrom isn't in net????

Sutter needs that to use as motivation for why players need to play his system - it's the only way they can come back from 2-3 goals down in the 1st period!!!

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by bolevi

i assume wolf is on the big club this coming season, and i'm terrified that Sutter Sigalet is going to make a mess of the kid.

fyp

[GioforPM]

^^ I bet goalie coaches are a casualty of this big "review".

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Yeah he sure wrecked Kipper and Quick.

Quick came up with Labarbera and Ersberg as the goalies on the Kings.

Kipper was...kipper. But he was also 27 or something when he came to the Flames.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Seems pretty late in the game to make such significant coaching changes? The goalie coaches, Sutter his assistants that would be costly and do they have the required talent available to fill those positions?

Now with the arena on the expense sheet things could be tight for spending.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Seems pretty late in the game to make such significant coaching changes? The goalie coaches, Sutter his assistants that would be costly and do they have the required talent available to fill those positions?

Now with the arena on the expense sheet things could be tight for spending.

All the money being saved on the arena deal gives certainty and frees up cash to pay Sutter not go coach

[taxbuster]

Interesting segement on 960 sometime today: Thomas Hickey talking about the Islanders' PP and why it's not working. It's too stagnant and players don't move around enough...and it's creativity among the players on the PP that makes it hard for guys like him to defend. When players get stuck in "playing the position" and making sure they're "in the right place", the PPs get stagnant...and yet that is often what coaches try to instill in the guys on the PP when it's not working....and it is the least effective.

Sounds familiar when you look at PP 22-23 vs PP 21-22.....

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

The owner hired the coach and took away the GM's ability to fire him how is this on Treliving?

This is the owners fault for hiring a coach that is incapable of getting the job done, one that has caused 2 players to leave 2 more mulling their futures in Calgary and a bunch more of according to reports explicitly asked for Sutter to be fired.

Lol how soon people forget why Sutter was hired

Treliving’s team was in deep ####. Treliving would have been fired already if it wasn’t for Sutter turning the team around last year.

That said Sutter turned into #### this year too

I guess the owner gets the blame for both of them lol

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

Quick came up with Labarbera and Ersberg as the goalies on the Kings.

Kipper was...kipper. But he was also 27 or something when he came to the Flames.

So which goalie has Sutter made a mess of?

Markstrom was runner up for the vezina a year ago under Sutter and then forgot how to save anything.

Of all the valid criticisms of Sutter, pretending his defensive first, low event hockey is bad for goaltenders has to be the most ridiculous attempt to just blame him for everything.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

So which goalie has Sutter made a mess of?

Markstrom was runner up for the vezina a year ago under Sutter and then forgot how to save anything.

Of all the valid criticisms of Sutter, pretending his defensive first, low event hockey is bad for goaltenders has to be the most ridiculous attempt to just blame him for everything.

His handling of young players the last couple of years has been atrocious

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

^^ I bet goalie coaches are a casualty of this big "review".

Two things

I suspect the data they pay attention to does not see the reviewers frothing at the mouth like a bunch of fans here

The director of goaltending is responsible for Wolf being in the organization

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Two things

I suspect the data they pay attention to does not see the reviewers frothing at the mouth like a bunch of fans here

The director of goaltending is responsible for Wolf being in the organization

He was a 7th round pick. Let's not pretend it was a situation he continually slammed his fist on the draft table to make this happen. The player was right in the Flames backyard and they probably got a lot of looks at him and decided to take a flyer on him but this isn't like taking Gaudreau in the 4th round or anything.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Two things

I suspect the data they pay attention to does not see the reviewers frothing at the mouth like a bunch of fans here

The director of goaltending is responsible for Wolf being in the organization

No but the data might look at what the goalies have done under their watch. I think the answer is not as simple as the goalie coaches, obviously, but the talk is there’s a big change coming and they have been here the longest of the coaches.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Two things

I suspect the data they pay attention to does not see the reviewers frothing at the mouth like a bunch of fans here

The director of goaltending is responsible for Wolf being in the organization

As I've said about a dozen times. I'm willing to admit that the current public data needs to improve; differentiation from how events occur, goalie placement and even the shooter that has the opportunity would help a lot.

But to expect any change in different data to move the needle on a 31st ranked 5 on 5 goaltending staff seems like a stretch.

Do you expect said data to show they're top ten? bottom ten? I'll give you a spot or two or even three, but that won't change the bottom line.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

As I've said about a dozen times. I'm willing to admit that the current public data needs to improve; differentiation from how events occur, goalie placement and even the shooter that has the opportunity would help a lot.

But to expect any change in different data to move the needle on a 31st ranked 5 on 5 goaltending staff seems like a stretch.

Do you expect said data to show they're top ten? bottom ten? I'll give you a spot or two or even three, but that won't change the bottom line.

I know what you’ve said, and with all due respect, well.. yes I do expect better data would make a material impact.

But I wouldn’t say top 10. I think Markstrom is an average to slightly above average goalie

A closer look at the Vezina nominee season IMO would see Markstrom put closer to average (team impact was huge, much like Ullmark this season), and for last season would put him closer to average. The Vezina nom season I didn’t love the save selection / post save recovery and rebound placement a lot of the time but his team play bailed him out a lot

The Flames use data sources we don’t have. And I am confident Sigalet and team look at it with a fine toothed comb from a shot by shot goalie lens, and I am also confident Sutter doesn’t give a ####

Even Burke said he didn’t care for goalie stats. He took the view that there are shots you should stop, shots you could stop, and shots you can’t stop

Did you see the other thread I created about Opportunity Analysis?

There is some good stuff coming soon, using puck and player tracking chips and machine learning

And it even has mention of a NHL coach being fine with the game of a goalie who just put up a .8xx showing


Anyways, my view is that
- the goaltending coaching staff probably has a thoroughly informed view on what exactly they believe Markstrom is, and why
- any evaluation being done of the coaching staff will most likely involve that conversation about the goalie performance and contributing factors
- in fact I will also say that the conversation likely will include how the head coach’s practices use the goalies as well

Who knows. The goalie coaches may go.

But the poster that said he expects goaltending coaching to be a casualty really didn’t give any reason, it was just a drive by

Nothing I said was wrong
- the Flames will look at different info which again will probably shine a more positive light than the prevailing view of the bulk of the mob here
- the coaching staff will have Wolf as a positive in their favour

[Red Slinger]

Pretty disappointing that Sutter is in Calgary and at the Wranglers game but hasn't had the balls to face the media after this years debacle. Where's the accountability for the coach?