[News] Flames and Treliving agree to part ways. Maloney promoted to PoHO and interim GM

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Weird part is attracting players isn't really an issue.

Markstrom, Tanev, Coleman, Kadri were all top Free Agents in their UFA years.

Issue was that two guys ditched the team they were drafted by.

I don't think you're signing those four now with the trajectory of the team though. Instead of being an upcoming young team with solid pieces, they're an aging team with a ####ty rink and an alleged divided room etc

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Neither Toronto nor Edmonton got their high picks as a result of some patient overarching plan.

Edmonton got three in a row, right? Or 3 in 4 years? Their sucking in the first place wasn't part of a bigger plan, but surely the continued nature of it had something to do with the patience of seeing through the youth movement.

Hell, they did an 'Oil Change' documentary. There had to have been alignment on some level of changing the core through the draft.

Now, that rebuild was a failure until they got McDavid, but at least demonstrates there was a commitment to losing before the resurgence.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by traptor

Yup this has been my growing realization as well. If wolf is what we hope he is, this team won't be able to commit to a rebuild for the next decade. The window for that was 21/22(last season), 22/23 and 23/24.

At this point I think you have to try and retool younger. Move out all the 30+ 2024 UFAs for guys under 24, prospects and 2023 picks and hope you hit some breakouts. I'm starting to think it's too late for a rebuild and you might ruin wolf if you do.

People need to slow their role on Wolf altering this franchise.

Luongo was vezina caliber for years in Florida we might remember. That didn't stop them from being a dumpster fire.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Edmonton got three in a row, right? Or 3 in 4 years? Their sucking in the first place wasn't part of a bigger plan, but surely the continued nature of it had something to do with the patience of seeing through the youth movement.

Hell, they did an 'Oil Change' documentary. There had to have been alignment on some level of changing the core through the draft.

Now, that rebuild was a failure until they got McDavid, but at least demonstrates there was a commitment to losing before the resurgence.

This is revisionist history

They did everything they could to get better but sucked an won lotteries...lotteries with adjusted odds because of their sucking helped them.

Heck Oilers were trying to trade for players like Danny Heatley but he refused

[Muta]

Man, I'm tired of hearing about the 'weather' excuse. I don't doubt what Winters is saying, he has a pulse on the players and this has obviously been an 'issue' for a long time; but a) Calgary isn't THAT bad for weather (this isn't Yellowknife or Iqaluit for God's sake), and b) for a game where millionaires make their living playing on ICE for a living, it sure does seem ironic they complain about it being 'cold; and c) hockey players seem to start families at young ages quite regularly, so the family-first thing being a negative is also a weird viewpoint.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

How do you land a Matthews or McDavid if Wolf is indeed Vezina calibre...

You trade him for the #1 pick.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Rich Winter talked last year during the Mangipane negotations and said how Treliving gets players and is one of the better GM's in the league.

Also it was the interview he said that Mangipane presented the Flames a long terms package and how he was going to score 45 plus goals.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

fixed

Sure, but it's part of the system. The Flames can continue to operate as if that part of the system isn't a reality, or they can get over it and try to build a team that is consistently better than what the Flames have historically been. I think it's foolish to play up the "magic lottery ball" angle when it isn't magic - it's percentages, and those percentages are a lot more stable than any sort of approach that the Flames have taken.

Working on giving yourself the best chance to draft 1st overall is no different than working to give yourself a chance at the Stanley Cup.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Rich Winter talked last year during the Mangipane negotations and said how Treliving gets players and is one of the better GM's in the league.

Also it was the interview he said that Mangipane presented the Flames a long terms package and how he was going to score 45 plus goals.

*hires rich winter for my next performance review*

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by dino7c

This is revisionist history

They did everything they could to get better but sucked an won lotteries...lotteries with adjusted odds because of their sucking helped them.

Heck Oilers were trying to trade for players like Danny Heatley but he refused

I think the big swings are warranted for a market like Edmonton or Calgary.

I cannot recount specifics, but if gifted a 1st OA (or three), pushing in the chips on a big-ticket acquisition like Heatley isn't exactly unprecedented.

[Monahammer]

Sutter was half right 20 years ago. We should be focusing on Western Canadian Kids when most other attributes are even, IMO. The higher chance they'll be willing to set up shop and become a legend in red forever should be an attribute we consider top of draft.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

I think the big swings are warranted for a market like Edmonton or Calgary.

I cannot recount specifics, but if gifted a 1st OA (or three), pushing in the chips on a big-ticket acquisition like Heatley isn't exactly unprecedented.

Oof dude. They hadn't even drafted first overall once yet at this point.


"cannot recount any data, but will build a conclusion based upon that"

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Sutter was half right 20 years ago. We should be focusing on Western Canadian Kids when most other attributes are even, IMO. The higher chance they'll be willing to set up shop and become a legend in red forever should be an attribute we consider top of draft.

Huge strategic advantages IMO, especially contractually.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Sutter was half right 20 years ago. We should be focusing on Western Canadian Kids when most other attributes are even, IMO. The higher chance they'll be willing to set up shop and become a legend in red forever should be an attribute we consider top of draft.

I know that the Winnipeg Jet's make a big habit of trying to draft players from the Prairies and from colder US climates like Minnesota, Michigan etc.

They feel they adjust better or know what to expect from the people, the lifestyle and the weather a little better.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Muta

Man, I'm tired of hearing about the 'weather' excuse. I don't doubt what Winters is saying, he has a pulse on the players and this has obviously been an 'issue' for a long time; but a) Calgary isn't THAT bad for weather (this isn't Yellowknife or Iqaluit for God's sake), and b) for a game where millionaires make their living playing on ICE for a living, it sure does seem ironic they complain about it being 'cold; and c) hockey players seem to start families at young ages quite regularly, so the family-first thing being a negative is also a weird viewpoint.

Its not like they all live in Calgary year round and they only play half the season here.

During holidays they fly back home.

Waking up at 6am and having to drive in the gloomy snow shouldn't be a issue for these guys.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Rich Winter talked last year during the Mangipane negotations and said how Treliving gets players and is one of the better GM's in the league.

Also it was the interview he said that Mangipane presented the Flames a long terms package and how he was going to score 45 plus goals.

Bread and his agent are better salesman than I gave them credit for. I always thought his 35 goal season was a Cheechoo-like fluke where he was hitting unsustainable shooting percentages for hot stretches of the season then getting cold again.

Maybe you could say it was the shoulder injury or inconsistent linemates but I don't think he'll ever get close to 45 or even past 20 goals reliably.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by dino7c

This is revisionist history

They did everything they could to get better but sucked an won lotteries...lotteries with adjusted odds because of their sucking helped them.

Heck Oilers were trying to trade for players like Danny Heatley but he refused

Definitely true.

Here are some fond memories:

H.O.P.E. and the associated marketing campaign. Hall, Omark, Paarjvi Svenson and Eberle were billed as the hope of the franchise, and the next 80s. This was still pre Lowe "How many cups do you have?" meltdown. They also thought Souray would be their Pronger.

Bringing in a legendary goalie and flames killer in Khabibulin to solidify the net. Bulin would end up getting caved in most nights.

Ilya Bryzgalov intended to be their 'Bulin wall replacement.

Vladdy Hockey

Somewhere in here the flames went two whole seasons without losing to the Oilers. Or maybe we lost once. Great time to be a flames fan living in Edmonton.

Yakupov and his failure to launch. Made especially hilarious by his Theo slide down the ice on a meaningless goal.

Heatley doing everything possible to avoid getting traded there.

They fired McTavish, brought back McTavish, then Fired him again!

Bringing in Bob Nicholson to "clean up the franchise image". It has proceed to decline even further (remarkably) since. Bobby now famous for overpriced hamburgers and tacitly endorsing sexual assault.

They fired Ralph Kruger over Skype.

[Shazam]

I dunno, if I was Tre and The Owner (of which there's more than one) told me to offer Gaudreau a certain contract, I would've first protested, and then when The Owner to me to offer it anyhow, I would've resigned.

I know a lot of people blame The Owner, but Tre had the choice to walk away.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Edmonton got three in a row, right? Or 3 in 4 years? Their sucking in the first place wasn't part of a bigger plan, but surely the continued nature of it had something to do with the patience of seeing through the youth movement.

Hell, they did an 'Oil Change' documentary. There had to have been alignment on some level of changing the core through the draft.

Now, that rebuild was a failure until they got McDavid, but at least demonstrates there was a commitment to losing before the resurgence.

Dude, they were rebuilding since Gagner and Cogliano were rookies. But no, they never actually tanked, unless it was for Hall and even that year you can't point to moves they made to be worse. They were just that bad as a team.

[Yeah_Baby]

Yeah, the idea of "Oil Change" was tweaking, not they wearing tearing it all down. They just sucked because you had MacTavish expecting Toby Peterson to quarterback the PP