[News] Flames and Treliving agree to part ways. Maloney promoted to PoHO and interim GM

[Mattman]

Man if only Peters didn't turn out to be a fool, things would look so much different.

IMO that's was the beginning of the end for Tre. Good team, solid system, and good coaching. He placed so much faith in Peters as "his guy" and once all that happened it started showing cracks.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

We also can't say that Sutter received a 115 player. The game is played on the ice, not a historical stat sheet. We were hoping for a 115 point player, but received a 55 point player who wasn't a great fit with any line mates. Points don't translate across the board to other teams. It worked with Tkachuk in Florida, but didn't work with Huberdeau in Calgary or Gaudreau in Columbus.

And that was Huberdeau's career season, previous high was 92 points.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by chedder

And will be total fluff and not give us any insight into his real thoughts and decision to move on.

Treliving has class...and class would not have him coming out and giving behind the scenes info. He will probably say he had a great time here, loved the city, loved the fans, and wish the Flames the best of luck in the future.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by redmile04

They gave him the best they could - 115 and 97 point plus a quality defenceman, all did worse under him.

They had a serviceable defenseman in Valimaki, didnt like him so he excelled elsewhere. Got a decent top 6 forward in Milano, didnt like so he excelled elsewhere. Got him some AHL studs in Philips and Pelletier...

Not sure what else we can give him that he will like? Olli Jokinen

This narrative is really lazy and needs to stop. Milano played 64 games in Washington and scored 11 goals and 34 points. That's not excelling.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Lombardi wanted to can Sutter after 14/15 or 15/16 I forget which season but ownership told him no and soon after they both got fired.

It seems Sutter is able to go above the GM's head and get cozy with ownership.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

We also can't say that Sutter received a 115 player. The game is played on the ice, not a historical stat sheet. We were hoping for a 115 point player, but received a 55 point player who wasn't a great fit with any line mates. Points don't translate across the board to other teams. It worked with Tkachuk in Florida, but didn't work with Huberdeau in Calgary or Gaudreau in Columbus.

You know the game played on the ice is also dependent on some other things, right?

The Flames got a 115 point left winger, who was established on his team, played over 19 minutes a night, deployed on PP 1, with consistent linemates, and set a record for assists by a LW, playing on a team that played an East West offensive system

So they played him on RW, played him under 17 minutes a night, deployed on PP2, with Lucic and Kadri a bunch, in a system that was high in #### volume but towards the bottom of the league in passes to the slot and passes across the o zone

A player has to work with the opportunity he is given and imo Sutter ####ed this up

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Lombardi wanted to can Sutter after 14/15 or 15/16 I forget which season but ownership told him no and soon after they both got fired.

It seems Sutter is able to go above the GM's head and get cozy with ownership.

It's not unlike when Daryll hired Brent to coach. Daryll wanted to fire him, but ownership eventually came down and said no. Just like then, there was the feeling that Sutter would be Treliving's last coaching hire if things didn't work. Eventually a line has to drawn somewhere. It would happen in practically any business. If you ran a business and one of your manager was racking up huge severance pay tabs because he was hiring and firing people after a short period of time, eventually you might start having to get involved.

How many coaching hires should a GM get before higher up management starts saying no?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

You know the game played on the ice is also dependent on some other things, right?

The Flames got a 115 point left winger, who was established on his team, played over 19 minutes a night, deployed on PP 1, with consistent linemates, and set a record for assists by a LW, playing on a team that played an East West offensive system

So they played him on RW, played him under 17 minutes a night, deployed on PP2, with Lucic and Kadri a bunch, in a system that was high in #### volume but towards the bottom of the league in passes to the slot and passes across the o zone

A player has to work with the opportunity he is given and imo Sutter ####ed this up

He played RW at first to give Pelletier a chance to play in the top 6, something everyone wanted at the time, and also because he tried everything else with Huberdeau. This team is LW heavy and RW light. Pelletier is an LW and a raw rookie, so expecting him to move over wouldn't have been fair. Sutter was trying to roll with what Treliving provided.

And of course, this team is just really weak at RW, which is a roster issue, not a coaching one. You would expect or at least hope that a player about to make $10.5 million per season could be a little more adaptable. But again, Sutter didn't give him that contract.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It's not unlike when Daryll hired Brent to coach. Daryll wanted to fire him, but ownership eventually came down and said no. Just like then, there was the feeling that Sutter would be Treliving's last coaching hired if things didn't work. Eventually a line has to drawn somewhere. It would happen in practically any business. If you ran a business and one of your managers was racking up huge severance pay tabs because he was hiring and firing people after a short period of time, eventually you might start having to get involved.

How many coaching hires should a GM get before higher up management starts saying no?

He inherited Bob Hartley and they extended him after a playoff appearance.

His first hire was awful and they cut ties after 2 years, and it may have also been a budget hire based on the coach we got.

I think he got it right with Bill Peters but he also didn't fire him, something I don't think anyone prepared for happened and out went Peters and his assistant took over and was extended during the pandemic.

It sounds like during this time period Edwards stepped in and tried to force in Sutter and when he didn't take the job and we played poorly in the covid season Edwards probably upped his offer to Sutter to come in and forced Treliving to fire a coach.

So really the only coaches you can put on his tab of expenses was Glen and partially Bob Hartley.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^^^ one insider said Brent planned to quit, had a meeting where he told the coaching staff, and then that prompted the decision to turf Darryl

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Ped

This narrative is really lazy and needs to stop. Milano played 64 games in Washington and scored 11 goals and 34 points. That's not excelling.

Not to mention Washington only signed him after injuries when the entire league passed

[atb]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I will admit that this is probably as low as I've felt as a Flames fan.
The inside knowledge from a couple posters, who I think have a high degree of credibility, confirms what many of us thought to be true: that the owner was not allowing the GM operate the club as he wanted to.
Now it is perfectly reasonable that an owner would have to approve large contracts to players, but obvious there is far more at play than that.
I think we had a really good GM trying his best, but being undermined.
So I have little faith that a new GM will have much better luck.

Hard to feel optimistic right now.

This is arguably the worst run franchise in the NHL when you factor in the building fiasco.

Watched the least amount of games I ever have this season. It's weird to really not care about a team that I've followed for so long, and this is after coming into this season believing this team might be a better built Sutter-type playoff team than 2021-22. Sure the Huberdeau and Kadri deals are going to look bad in the later years, but at least thought we'd get a few good seasons to make some playoff runs....yikes.

Now hearing all this internal dysfunction stuff come out makes it hard to feel optimistic until there is a change organizational philosophy or ownership. Hoping that if the Ottawa sale goes through at 900M-1B that Edwards sees it as a massive cash out opportunity.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I think he got it right with Bill Peters but he also didn't fire him, something I don't think anyone prepared for happened and out went Peters and his assistant took over and was extended during the pandemic.

It sounds like during this time period Edwards stepped in and tried to force in Sutter and when he didn't take the job and we played poorly in the covid season Edwards probably upped his offer to Sutter to come in and forced Treliving to fire a coach.

So really the only coaches you can put on his tab of expenses was Glen and partially Bob Hartley.

I've heard a rumor around that time that it was either Sutter or Ward as the coach that offseason and those were the only options for Tre.

The rumor I heard was Sutter didn't want to join the team at the time (COVID was still pretty uncertain at that point and what the season would look like was up in the air) so they stuck with Ward.

Then when the season started poorly Edwards circled back to Sutter and he agreed at that time since things were a bit more clear with how the season was going to work and things were starting to be a bit more stable with COVID.

Didn't really think it was true at the time...but in hindsight that feels like it checks out a bit.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by atb

Now hearing all this internal dysfunction stuff come out makes it hard to feel optimistic until there is a change organizational philosophy or ownership. Hoping that if the Ottawa sale goes through at 900M-1B that Edwards sees it as a massive cash out opportunity.

The problem is that I don't think anyone would want to buy the team to keep in Calgary without a new building, or at the very least, an arena agreement in place like in Ottawa. Imagine paying $1 billion for a team that is either going to have no home in 10 years (max), or that you will need to invest another $400 million in immediately after purchase, assuming the City is also paying.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Mattman

Man if only Peters didn't turn out to be a fool, things would look so much different.

IMO that's was the beginning of the end for Tre. Good team, solid system, and good coaching. He placed so much faith in Peters as "his guy" and once all that happened it started showing cracks.

Weren't the Flames on track to miss the playoffs before the scandal?

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

And that was Huberdeau's career season, previous high was 92 points.

I'd argue the difference between a 92 point player and a 117 point player is not significant and really just comes down to the season, usage, linemates, luck.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I've heard a rumor around that time that it was either Sutter or Ward as the coach that offseason and those were the only options for Tre.

The rumor I heard was Sutter didn't want to join the team at the time (COVID was still pretty uncertain at that point and what the season would look like was up in the air) so they stuck with Ward.

Then when the season started poorly Edwards circled back to Sutter and he agreed at that time since things were a bit more clear with how the season was going to work and things were starting to be a bit more stable with COVID.

Didn't really think it was true at the time...but in hindsight that feels like it checks out a bit.

It does make sense with everything happening.

So pretty much confirms that Treliving got 2 coaching hires, he didn't hire Ward to be the head coach the circumstances forced them to put in the position.

I wonder if his intention was to fire Hartley after his first season but we made the playoffs.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Weren't the Flames on track to miss the playoffs before the scandal?

Yeah. He wasn't a good coach who turned out to be an #######. He was a mediocre coach everywhere and was trending to be one here who turned out to be an #######.

But that turned out in Treliving's favour. It was three whiffs in a row on coaches for Treliving.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Weren't the Flames on track to miss the playoffs before the scandal?

They were 12-12-0-4. However they had just busted a 6 game losing streak when the scandal arose. So they may have righted the ship therafter (they did under Ward). Ward went 24-15-3, inlcuding a 6 game winning streak right off the bat.

Ward was probably done in in game 4 against Dallas. Up 4-3 with 12 seconds to play and about to take a 3-1 lead in the series. Frickin' Pavelski scores, and the Flames lose in OT and lose the next two games. They win that game, they probably win another one and go on to round two, and Ward has a much longer rope the next year. Instead, Markstrom gets nailed in game 15 or so (after a very decent start) and this among other things killed Ward.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Toonage

There are Calgary media members who are adamant that Sutter was a Treliving hire. I feel like we may never know the whole truth there. Was this Tre's last swing at a coach and he took the hammer, broke the "in case of emergency" glass and regretted it immediately? And when he did ownership said "nope, you wanted this?" Is this tough love and he quit over it?

I wonder if it was more that Treliving didn't want to replace Ward
a) for having to fire a guy he hired and by all accounts was well liked, upset his family's life etc.
b) as he didn't want yet another coaching change under his watch and rightly or wrongly was confident in his Ward hire.
b) for Sutter who maybe he was forced to ask about interest the first time when Sutter wasn't ready and didn't feel he would have picked Sutter had he been in a true coaching search.

Then Edwards said, too bad. Do it.