One thing I find funny about this whole saga is that when Sutter was hired and things were going well, there were a lot people who were in denial that it was an Edwards hired and wanted to give credit to Treliving. Trelving has a lot of fans and I bet there is a lot of crossover between people who were giving him credit for that hire who now blame Edwards.
Granted, it is quite possible that Sutter was initially a Treliving hire, but the decision to change coaches now was taken away from him. I think there is also some truth about the media directing the narrative here. Treliving was a media darling and Sutter is the exact opposite. They are basking in the idea that Sutter is the root cause of everything bad.
There are Calgary media members who are adamant that Sutter was a Treliving hire. I feel like we may never know the whole truth there. Was this Tre's last swing at a coach and he took the hammer, broke the "in case of emergency" glass and regretted it immediately? And when he did ownership said "nope, you wanted this?" Is this tough love and he quit over it?
There are Calgary media members who are adamant that Sutter was a Treliving hire. I feel like we may never know the whole truth there. Was this Tre's last swing at a coach and he took the hammer, broke the "in case of emergency" glass and regretted it immediately? And when he did ownership said "nope, you wanted this?" Is this tough love and he quit over it?
Well, there was the story that Treliving approached Sutter before (I imagine right at the time of the Peters fiasco) and Sutter declined.
Well, there was the story that Treliving approached Sutter before (I imagine right at the time of the Peters fiasco) and Sutter declined.
You can put me in the camp that was certain this couldn't be a Treliving hire. It made no sense to me at the time. But now? Who knows. And yeah this isn't the first time media has told us it was Treliving's decision. I was very stubborn to buy that personally.
I believe Maloney said or maybe it was Steinberg speculating that the meeting with the coaching staff would be Wednesday, so it may have already completed. I'd expect a decision to be made by Friday by Maloney, Conroy and then communicated to ownership either Friday or Monday. Meaning, if they decide to move on from Sutter, we should expect something next week?
I can't see it being before a new gm is in the seat. Even if that means hiring a Sutter yes man who will come in and say he has the utmost confidence in the coaching staff. It will be the new gm that makes the announcement.
You can put me in the camp that was certain this couldn't be a Treliving hire. It made no sense to me at the time. But now? Who knows. And yeah this isn't the first time media has told us it was Treliving's decision. I was very stubborn to buy that personally.
I dunno why it would or wouldn't be, after they'd decided to move on from Ward. At the time of Peters leaving it made sense to either have Ward or a very experienced, take charge guy. So it's not a reach to think they looked at Sutter then. And when Ward stumbled it's not a stretch to think they reached out again.
For me it was Treliving's hiring history. Sutter just didn't seem like a guy he would go out and get. Even when he went with peters, a Sutter-esque coach in his own right.
At the time it was rumored Toronto offered JVR+1st to NYI for Hamonic. They were definitely in the bidding but Hamonic preferred to come to the west.
Allegedly the Jackets offered Kadri 8.5Mx7 at the very start of free agency but he didn’t accept right away and then the Gaudreau thing happened and they moved quickly to him. It would have been interesting to see what Gaudreau would have done had the Jackets option not been there? Would he still be a Flame?
I suspect the Kadri deal was agreed to soon after the Huberdeau/Tkachuk trade. The Flames just had to find cap room and were trying to do so without giving up a 1st - but couldn't so they made the Monahan deal.
For me it was Treliving's hiring history. Sutter just didn't seem like a guy he would go out and get. Even when he went with peters, a Sutter-esque coach in his own right.
Frankly I think previous coaches were partly ownership driven, because of dollars. I know it doesn't make sense to argue they cheaped out on coaches when spending all that money on players, but Edwards is sometimes penny wise and pound foolish.
If I were Murray Edwards I would like to see Calgary flames win the Cup. Make proper change restart rebuild the team next 2-3 years.
I'm not sure why the owners looking to make a little bit money every season than building a real contender team to win the cup.
Own a hockey team so many years but don't have any success during these years?
Most of the owners getting old and and they are earning money from their own businesses anyway but they looking for make more money from hockey too?
I mean, my goal is for the Flames to win the cup. But I think it takes a bit more than that.
Dont get me wrong..it would likely be a full scale disaster. But at least they'd have a singular vision trying to achieve the goal. Worst case scenario it doesn't work and they just have to rebuild from scratch anyways. But if Sutter is guaranteed to be here for a couple years, just give him what he needs.
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A few weeks after crashing head-first into the boards (denting his helmet and being unable to move for a little while) following a hit from behind by Bob Errey, the Calgary Flames player explains:
"I was like Christ, lying on my back, with my arms outstretched, crucified"
-- Frank Musil - Early January 1994
Dont get me wrong..it would likely be a full scale disaster. But at least they'd have a singular vision trying to achieve the goal. Worst case scenario it doesn't work and they just have to rebuild from scratch anyways. But if Sutter is guaranteed to be here for a couple years, just give him what he needs.
They gave him the best they could - 115 and 97 point plus a quality defenceman, all did worse under him.
They had a serviceable defenseman in Valimaki, didnt like him so he excelled elsewhere. Got a decent top 6 forward in Milano, didnt like so he excelled elsewhere. Got him some AHL studs in Philips and Pelletier...
Not sure what else we can give him that he will like? Olli Jokinen
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I suspect the Kadri deal was agreed to soon after the Huberdeau/Tkachuk trade. The Flames just had to find cap room and were trying to do so without giving up a 1st - but couldn't so they made the Monahan deal.
I wonder what would have happened if Kadri accepted the Jackets deal when it was offered? They would not have been able to make Gaudreau an offer so Johnny likely has to sign cheaper with the Devils or Islanders. He could have likely signed with the Flames or go short term less money like Taylor Hall did when he went to Buffalo?
I think we have to remember that the dynamic was different between them in LA. In LA Lombardi was Sutter's boss and in Calgary Murray is Sutter's boss. He's been afforded a level of power in Calgary that he didn't wield in LA. It was evident early in his return when he started critiquing the team Treliving built that he didn't fear the wrath of the GM.
I think we have to remember that the dynamic was different between them in LA. In LA Lombardi was Sutter's boss and in Calgary Murray is Sutter's boss. He's been afforded a level of power in Calgary that he didn't wield in LA. It was evident early in his return when he started critiquing the team Treliving built that he didn't fear the wrath of the GM.
still blows my mind how childish Sutter has been through all of this and still maintains the high respect of ownership
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They gave him the best they could - 115 and 97 point plus a quality defenceman, all did worse under him.
They had a serviceable defenseman in Valimaki, didnt like him so he excelled elsewhere. Got a decent top 6 forward in Milano, didnt like so he excelled elsewhere. Got him some AHL studs in Philips and Pelletier...
Not sure what else we can give him that he will like? Olli Jokinen
this post is mostly wrong.
Kadri is not a 97 point player. he's a 60 point player who over achieved last year.
Weegar was excellent.
Valimaki wasn't serviceable. he sucked. Milano sucked in his tryout, and a couple of small rookies.
That's not exactly giving him the keys to a Ferrari.
Just listening to the DFO Rundown podcast with Frank Seravalli and he says Treliving wanted to make a coaching change and was told no and then he left. So his taking an extension hinged on firing Sutter and wasn't allowed.
"GM walks because ownership decided to go with the coach"
"(Some)Players loudly voiced displeasure with Sutter in exit interviews"
Thinks Maloney feels the same as Treliving in regards to coaching.
"Whoever gets it (GM) is inheriting a bulletproof coach more or less"
"Its a mess."
Here’s the audio of y’all want to listen:
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Just listening to the DFO Rundown podcast with Frank Seravalli and he says Treliving wanted to make a coaching change and was told no and then he left. So his taking an extension hinged on firing Sutter and wasn't allowed.
"GM walks because ownership decided to go with the coach"
"(Some)Players loudly voiced displeasure with Sutter in exit interviews"
Thinks Maloney feels the same as Treliving in regards to coaching.
"Whoever gets it (GM) is inheriting a bulletproof coach more or less"
"Its a mess."
Unreal if true but makes sense. It lines up with rumour that extensions were offered to Tre and Sutter at the same time in the Fall rather than Tre first then he extends Sutter.
Question for season ticket holders....honest curiosity: Why would you renew? It feels like STH's are being taken for stooges if these rumours are true.
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"Fun must be always!" - Tomas Hertl
Kadri is not a 97 point player. he's a 60 point player who over achieved last year.
Weegar was excellent.
Valimaki wasn't serviceable. he sucked. Milano sucked in his tryout, and a couple of small rookies.
That's not exactly giving him the keys to a Ferrari.
We also can't say that Sutter received a 115 player. The game is played on the ice, not a historical stat sheet. We were hoping for a 115 point player, but received a 55 point player who wasn't a great fit with any line mates. Points don't translate across the board to other teams. It worked with Tkachuk in Florida, but didn't work with Huberdeau in Calgary or Gaudreau in Columbus.
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