Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Fuzz]

Oh, quick math looks like 2% of 2.7 trillion GDP = ~$54 billion a year. Our spending is $467 billion, so that's more than 10% a year to defence. Not sure I can agree with that priority...

[peter12]

At least, it's saying what everybody knows, but how goddam embarrassing anyway.

[peter12]

As an aside, reading some of the comments in this thread, it's still so shocking to me how many Canadians adopt a provincial backwoods mentality when it comes to Canada's place on the global stage. It's like people are intentionally ignorant.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Slava

I don't know about a country (maybe there is one and maybe there are none?), but there are several US states that have no income tax and only consumption taxes. It seems like that would be trickier because people could shop across the state border and kind of arbitrage. For example, I have a family member who lived in Vancouver Washington and shopped in Portland Oregon. No income tax in Washington and no consumption tax in Oregon.

Anyway...there are real world examples there this is in operation. I don't know if there are countries, and I don't know if it would work in Canada. But consumption taxes are pretty widely acknowledged as being more efficient than income taxes.

No states have only consumption taxes. The non-income tax states all have property taxes (in some cases pretty high property taxes).

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

As an aside, watching peter enter a thread while making sweeping generalizations and being condesending is utterly shocking.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

As an aside, watching peter enter a thread while making sweeping generalizations and being condesending is utterly shocking.

Awww is your little bottom lip trembling?

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Yes, lol

[peter12]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No states have only consumption taxes. The non-income tax states all have property taxes (in some cases pretty high property taxes).

I'm pretty big on land value (property) and consumption taxes as a replacement for income tax. I honestly wish it was something that more people were in favour of, it is a) a more effective tax on rich people's assets (where they hold all their wealth anyway, and b) it is a great deal more efficient and would make our tax code a great deal simpler.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Eh, off topic, I just think a society built on consumption for the sake of consumption, while good for GDP and employment has a lot of drawbacks.

GDP and employment are like the most important public goods that a functioning economy produces...

[Monahammer]

I am not sure why we can't just make investments in sectors that contribute to NATO defense spending requirements, but also represent vectors for technological development. Drones (subnautical and aero), radar and detection technology, cyber attack/defense tech, etc.

Similar in thought to how Canada carved out precision robotics (i.e. Canadarm) as one of it's primary contributions to space programs.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I am not sure why we can't just make investments in sectors that contribute to NATO defense spending requirements, but also represent vectors for technological development. Drones (subnautical and aero), radar and detection technology, cyber attack/defense tech, etc.

Similar in thought to how Canada carved out precision robotics (i.e. Canadarm) as one of it's primary contributions to space programs.

Because we have basically no state capacity for innovation and Canadian companies don't like spending money on innovation either. We aren't really a serious country at the moment.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by peter12

I'm pretty big on land value (property) and consumption taxes as a replacement for income tax. I honestly wish it was something that more people were in favour of, it is a) a more effective tax on rich people's assets (where they hold all their wealth anyway, and b) it is a great deal more efficient and would make our tax code a great deal simpler.

Property tax yes, but even then only to the degree that the wealthy can't manipulate via holdcos. Aggressive property tax hits middle income pretty hard. And of course, in the Canadian federal system you'd have to invent a whole new regime. Consumption tax no, unless you are really really picky aabout exemptions, which a lot of places are not.

[peter12]

I'm increasingly in the camp that Canada is broken, it's the fault of a bunch of people and institutions across the political spectrum, and that most Canadians are far too complacent.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Property tax yes, but even then only to the degree that the wealthy can't manipulate via holdcos. Aggressive property tax hits middle income pretty hard. And of course, in the Canadian federal system you'd have to invent a whole new regime. Consumption tax no, unless you are really really picky aabout exemptions, which a lot of places are not.

I mean, we probably NEED a whole new tax regime, anyway.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by peter12

I'm increasingly in the camp that Canada is broken, it's the fault of a bunch of people and institutions across the political spectrum, and that most Canadians are far too complacent.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Canada has fallen to the back of the line, we need to panic

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Oh, quick math looks like 2% of 2.7 trillion GDP = ~$54 billion a year. Our spending is $467 billion, so that's more than 10% a year to defence. Not sure I can agree with that priority...

FWIW I did some quick calculations of other countries (Latvia and Germany) and yes, 9-10% of actual spending seems to be what they would need to do to meet the 2% of GDP.

[Fuzz]

No idea if this would help or not, wide open to criticism...


Get rid of income taxes and turn them all into payroll taxes levied on the employer. Employers then pay lower salaries due to increase costs. Then your salary is your salary, without deductions. I'm not sure if governments could then have more flexibility, like increasing corporate taxes during good times...


Thoughts?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Somebody has been watching too much PP.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Somebody has been watching too much PP.

Is that the explanation for this weird series of “Canada is doooooomed!!” posts?