The Good, the Brad & the Ugly

[TheIronMaiden]

We can't have enough Treliving threads. We have one discussing the future of the team, and one thanking him for his hard work, and now, we have a thunderdome to weigh the good vs the bad moves of Brad Treliving.


The Good.
Treliving is excellent at public relations. BT could write a clinic on PR. He has a real skill for communicating what his team philosophy and rational for making moves was. Whether you agreed with him or not you had a good idea what his plan was and where he felt the team should be headed. Even on some of the toughest days he was able to draw fans to his vision for the Flames

The Ugly.
Treliving had an awful time managing coaches. In 9 years he worked with 5 different coaches. Hartly was not BT's coach and so he brought in Glen Gulutzan who sputtered for two years. Next was Bill Peters which seemed to work, until he seemingly lost the room then was caught in a scandal, another two year stint. Geoff Ward only had a year leash before getting fired. Finally, was Sutter. There are rumors swirling about ownership having influence over coaching direction. Never the less, 5 coaches in 9 years is still a part of Treliving's legacy.


There is lots more to break down, I look forward to reading what folks have to say.

[Flamesfan05]

Tough RFA negotiations that may eventually led to players leaving

Horrible UFA signings. Tanev is probably the only good major signing.

[Toonage]

Would have gone with The Good, the Brad & the Ugly for a thread title but thats just me

[Parallex]

The Good: Drafting. Other then the first draft (which was pretty clearly a Burke directed draft) I like what he's done at the entry draft.

The Bad: Free Agency. He signs way to many clunkers that end up eating valuable cap space at the bottom of the roster. With the cap the NHL is an efficiency contest and having a Brouwer/Neal->Lucic constantly on your roster really hurts getting over the hump.

Extensions at one point would have been in the "good" column but his failure to get Johnny and Tkachuk to re-up reduced his "score" there and IRT trades I think he's neutral.

[Lanny_McDonald]

The Good

Brad Treliving is a quality man and a solid human being. His heart was always in the right spot and he loved the hockey club. Most importantly I think he really loved the community and being part of Calgary.

The Bad

Focus and planning. The Flames just never appeared to have a long-term plan, and if they did, couldn't stick to it. "Just getting in" was the plan and it really didn't work.

The Ugly

Picking coaches and off ice staff for the hockey club. Treliving put together a really mediocre organization that always managed to find the middle of the road, never really great and never really terrible, just really mediocre.

[Ashes]

The Good

Brad's RFA negotiations were usually solid, with a few exceptions where I would have liked him to sign players longer term.

Drafting seemed to improve during his tenure (would look at lot better if f****** Fox liked Calgary).

Took big swings when he had the chance, I always admired his courage to take chances.

Awesome guy, never showed his ego and seemed to genuinely care about the City and the people he worked with.

The Bad

UFA signings for the most part (Neal, Brouwer, Raymond)

Maybe an unpopular opinion but I won't miss his nothing-burger press conferences. He was very good at keeping his cards close to the vest but it was tough for me as a fan to be excited about his pressers since he was so good at saying nothing while saying alot.

The Ugly

Last off-season was our chance to rebuild and take a package of futures from another team, but he chose to go for it instead. I still admire the courage and maybe it turns in our fortune and Huby/Kadri bounce back.. but that was clearly a franchise defining moment and we may have missed our chance at a rebuild.

Bad coaching hires during his tenure, too much faith in people who were "good people" as opposed to the best options that were out there (maybe ownership meddling and unwillingness to spend more $ on better coaches? I don't know)

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

The Good

Brad Treliving is a quality man and a solid human being. His heart was always in the right spot and he loved the hockey club. Most importantly I think he really loved the community and being part of Calgary.

The Bad

Focus and planning. The Flames just never appeared to have a long-term plan, and if they did, couldn't stick to it. "Just getting in" was the plan and it really didn't work.

The Ugly

Picking coaches and off ice staff for the hockey club. Treliving put together a really mediocre organization that always managed to find the middle of the road, never really great and never really terrible, just really mediocre.

The way I see the bad is that there was never a slow and steady, carefully planned build. They always seemed to be anxious to move too fast by making the big expensive trades which failed to pan out e.g. Hamilton, Hamonic, Neal, Huberdeau, Kadri.

Put another way, under BT they always seemed to be making desperate moves, in order to get ahead "now", and in so doing were sacrificing our future, by giving up too many picks and awarding expensive contracts.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

The way I see the bad is that there was never a slow and steady, carefully planned build. They always seemed to be anxious to move too fast by making the big expensive trades which failed to pan out e.g. Hamilton, Hamonic, Neal, Huberdeau, Kadri.

Put another way, under BT they always seemed to be making desperate moves, in order to get ahead "now", and in so doing were sacrificing our future, by giving up too many picks and awarding expensive contracts.

BT 100% jumped the gun after making the second round in 2015. I know hindsight is 20/20 but trading away a handful of high picks early into your window was not a prudent move. Despite success drafting the Flames never really had a second crop of prospects join the team other than Tkachuck.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

The Bad

Focus and planning. The Flames just never appeared to have a long-term plan, and if they did, couldn't stick to it. "Just getting in" was the plan and it really didn't work.

Originally Posted by flamesfever

The way I see the bad is that there was never a slow and steady, carefully planned build. They always seemed to be anxious to move too fast by making the big expensive trades which failed to pan out e.g. Hamilton, Hamonic, Neal, Huberdeau, Kadri.

Put another way, under BT they always seemed to be making desperate moves, in order to get ahead "now", and in so doing were sacrificing our future, by giving up too many picks and awarding expensive contracts.

This is true.

My worry is this doesn't change with Treliving leaving, this type of behavior comes up from higher in the organization.

And TBH we see it with Treliving leaving himself...our GM just left and it doesn't feel like our Ownership group or president really had a plan for how to deal with it.

[Dx54]

The Bad

He couldn't find a goalie for this team until his 6th year in. I think we all forget that we were plagued with inconsistent goaltending during the prime years of that core.

This can almost be an Ugly, honestly. We had a goaltending carousel of Ramo, Jonas Hiller, Brian Elliott, Chad Johnson, David Rittich, Mike Smith, Talbot and even now with Markstrom, its still not consistent.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

The Good

Brad Treliving is a quality man and a solid human being. His heart was always in the right spot and he loved the hockey club. Most importantly I think he really loved the community and being part of Calgary.

The Bad

Focus and planning. The Flames just never appeared to have a long-term plan, and if they did, couldn't stick to it. "Just getting in" was the plan and it really didn't work.

The Ugly

Picking coaches and off ice staff for the hockey club. Treliving put together a really mediocre organization that always managed to find the middle of the road, never really great and never really terrible, just really mediocre.

I think much of this applies to the organization as a whole for the last 30 years and not entirely just Brad.

If you grade his reign on results, it was a sub par run for the GM for sure. But it does need to be noted that he did suffer some unique and major challenges with Covid, Gaudreau/Tkachuk defecting, and the Peters scandal.

I have not been the biggest fan of his for the vast majority of his time here - I think he gets far too much credit for the good and not near enough flak for the bad - but you can't deny that he is a quality person and gave it his all while here. The organization would be in a much worse place had he never been hired, which is scary going into this new period and where the wrong person may take the team.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

We can't have enough Treliving threads. We have one discussing the future of the team, and one thanking him for his hard work, and now, we have a thunderdome to weigh the good vs the bad moves of Brad Treliving.


The Good.
Treliving is excellent at public relations. BT could write a clinic on PR. He has a real skill for communicating what his team philosophy and rational for making moves was. Whether you agreed with him or not you had a good idea what his plan was and where he felt the team should be headed. Even on some of the toughest days he was able to draw fans to his vision for the Flames

The Ugly.
Treliving had an awful time managing coaches. In 9 years he worked with 5 different coaches. Hartly was not BT's coach and so he brought in Glen Gulutzan who sputtered for two years. Next was Bill Peters which seemed to work, until he seemingly lost the room then was caught in a scandal, another two year stint. Geoff Ward only had a year leash before getting fired. Finally, was Sutter. There are rumors swirling about ownership having influence over coaching direction. Never the less, 5 coaches in 9 years is still a part of Treliving's legacy.


There is lots more to break down, I look forward to reading what folks have to say.

Great thread, awesome responses.

Good: Others covered it. He seemed to be a quality person.

Bad: I never understood 'the process.' What was the plan, what was the identity of the team supposed to be?

Ugly: Lot's of dollars sunk into bad free agents. That cap could have been weaponized for picks and young talent rather than spending it on over priced old guys.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Dx54

The Bad

He couldn't find a goalie for this team until his 6th year in. I think we all forget that we were plagued with inconsistent goaltending during the prime years of that core.

This can almost be an Ugly, honestly. We had a goaltending carousel of Ramo, Jonas Hiller, Brian Elliott, Chad Johnson, David Rittich, Mike Smith, Talbot and even now with Markstrom, its still not consistent.

BT did not leave the Flames with a healthy cap structure 8.2M tied into Vladar and Markstrom until 2024/25 is not a good look.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Tough RFA negotiations that may eventually led to players leaving

Horrible UFA signings. Tanev is probably the only good major signing.

I find the bolded argument so laughable. Do you really think being a pushover in one negotiation would lead to goodwill and a discount the next time?

[Aarongavey]

I have wanted Brad gone for awhile, not going to list the bad but the good for sure is how he handled Peters. I am not sure many other GM's would have handled that situation as professionally as Treliving did. Even though what Peters did was awful, how Treliving handled it was absolutely pure class.

Thought he did well at the draft, he should have just allowed himself to have more picks. If he would have kept all his picks and hit on the ones he traded at the ratio that he hit on the ones he kept the Flames would have a deep, young team right now.

[calgarywinning]

The Good

Seriously pursued and constantly probed the league for prospects, signings, etc. He worked hard. With micro focus on Brad for the Calgary Flames we fail to see the other GM's who've ventured nothing or not moved the dial for their team.

Sometimes making a decision doesn't pan out and he had a few of those, but he seemed to learn and adapt. I would call him a seasoned GM at this point. A lot of the harsh criticism is due to a hyper focus in our market.

The Brad

When he put his foot down on the media this summer after losing Gaudreau and Tkachuk. I just loved how he stood up for the City of Calgary as a great place. This narrative that YYC is not fun, and players don't want to play here is just garbage.

Flipping Neal for Lucic who was an absolute gem of a player to watch and cheer for even though he nears the end of his career. Lucic brought a lot of stability to the team, in terms of leadership, centering the puck in front of the net; posting himself in front of the net. I guess the detail on this is after the Neal mistake he was able parley it into something far more useful. While not a major moving roster point it speaks to his character to admit he was wrong and fix it.

Despite the strangetity (I know it's not a word) of this weird season, the absolute fleecing of Florida in that trade. Once other changes are made these players are going to be a serious force. Huberdeau is very very talented.

The Ugly

His dad owns Boston Pizza.

The question remains why he walked away from this team, and I feel ownership should be held accountable to the fan base. You aren't really going to go to market and come up with a better GM. You might get a GM with better luck, but that's not a resume trait.

I think, despite, all his activity and whether he signed people to low or too high, as a GM you are counting on these players to deliver on your behalf, for your team and your city. It would be hard to do a job for nine years and constantly have the team breakdown in the throws of the objective. Just wonky. I've seen the two worst terrible seasons in the last 4 years, despite the roster and the value of the UFA's that left.

I hope he has a nice break; enjoys life and clears the clutter from his mind and will land another role and continue to be a great GM.

[Bandwagon Surfer]

The hard part is knowing what is the organization, and what was Brad.

I find the Flames fit the expression "Penny wise but pound foolish" pretty well. They spend so much effort trying to squeeze out a better deal from the players they have, then turn around a waste way more cap space on terrible UFA signings. They focus so much on winning in the short term, while neglecting any long term plans.

The goal is not to "win" free agency by overpaying for the best available player. Or "win" the trade deadline, or "win" the draft day trades, ...

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I find the bolded argument so laughable. Do you really think being a pushover in one negotiation would lead to goodwill and a discount the next time?

You don't think that player who has zero leverage in his initial RFA negotiations and has to basically take what is offered to him may not harbour a grudge when he has all the leverage?

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

The way I see the bad is that there was never a slow and steady, carefully planned build. They always seemed to be anxious to move too fast by making the big expensive trades which failed to pan out e.g. Hamilton, Hamonic, Neal, Huberdeau, Kadri.

Put another way, under BT they always seemed to be making desperate moves, in order to get ahead "now", and in so doing were sacrificing our future, by giving up too many picks and awarding expensive contracts.

Harnarayan, is that you?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

You don't think that player who has zero leverage in his initial RFA negotiations and has to basically take what is offered to him may not harbour a grudge when he has all the leverage?

I don’t think Treliving is extra hard in negotiations - just fact based and businesslike. But I think the bigger point is that if he was softer in RFA negotiations, players would still demand what they demand. He wouldn’t get any breaks because of the previous niceness.