[News] Mangiapane undergoes shoulder surgery

[butterfly]

Kind of makes sense. Remember the title of the training camp thread? "Kylington unavailable, Mangiapane tweaked something."

[Finger Cookin]

Andrew Monahangiapane

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

Andrew Monahangiapane

Seandrew Monahangiapane

[Scornfire]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Fire the medical staff and acquire some with a miniscule combination of brains and gumption.

Sean Monahan's career was totally ruined by behavior just like this. IMO this is an organizational problem, and has been festering for some time. Do NOT play through injuries. Sit and minimize your recovery time to 100% instead of playing at 60% all season.

Seriously. I'm so ####ing sick of this story every god damn offseason. Bunch of spineless morons

[Harry Lime]

Mangyhands

[Reggie Dunlop]

Andrew Mangledshoulder

[GioforPM]

I don’t have evidence but in my mind I think Sutter isn’t the best with injuries. Remember he was annoyed when a player didn;t come back to the bench very quickly when he needed stitches.

Also, I doubt a seriously plugged in coaching staff would not notice a guy favouring an injury, even if they tried to hide it.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Personally, I thought Mangiapane was sensational in the second half of the season. Loved how he seemingly drove any line Sutter ended up throwing him out with. I know he didn't come anywhere close to 35 goals, but honestly, he's not a 35 goal guy. He just happened to ride an unsustainable hot month back in 2021 which resulted in that unmatchable total.

To me, he's a 40-50 point guy with a high motor and who plays the right way. That to me is classic Mangiapane and that's kind of where he ultimately ended up. 43 points, career high in assists, +12, bad first half, excellent second half. Still love this guy and hope he has a good recovery.

He scored in bunches in spring 2021
Continued that through the world championships
Then scored at a torrid pace through 2/3 of the next season

Quite a stretch of time for merely an "unsustainable streak"

Those kind of streaks don't span over two seasons, a tournament, and a summer wedged in between. They're usually a couple weeks to a couple months within a season.

If he got injured in training camp then the year he had makes a lot of sense. I suspect at his baseline he's at least a 25 goal scorer.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Buff

Coach: How's it going today? You got hurt last game, how does it feel?

Player: I'm fine, coach! Good as new!

Players don't want to lose their spot or don't want to let their team down by not being there. Being there and battling through things shows how dedicated they are and they value that in themselves immensely. I really don't know if this is an all sports type thing (probably) but it is definitely a hockey player attitude.

Exactly, which is why you need the medical staff or organization to make the decision they're not playing or shut down until healed/for surgery.
Leave it to the player or coach, they're going to think short term. Gotta take the decision out of their hands.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don’t have evidence but in my mind I think Sutter isn’t the best with injuries. Remember he was annoyed when a player didn;t come back to the bench very quickly when he needed stitches.

Also, I doubt a seriously plugged in coaching staff would not notice a guy favouring an injury, even if they tried to hide it.

He's been accused of making players play through concussions.

Pretty sure that's why he traded Lydman for peanuts because he didn't come back early enough during the 04 playoffs.

No evidence just a guess on the last part.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Sutter only played more than 60 games in two of his seven NHL seasons, owing to multiple injuries and surgeries for his ankle, knee, shoulder, ribs, and face after taking a deflected slapshot.

-- Wikipedia

[Jacks]

You got kids on the farm fighting for a call up and they play an injured player all year. Everyone is blaming Sutter (rightfully) but it's the medical staff and management as well. Just ridiculous.

[Zoller]

There seems to be a lot of speculation as to when the shoulder was initially injured.

Some of you have speculated that because his production dropped off, seemingly from the start of the season, it could have been a long-term term nagging injury.

The fact is we have no idea when the injury occurred. It could have been at the end of the season for all we know.

Let's say it happened during our late-season playoff push. Should he play? Looking at his play during that stretch I'm not convinced the organization had a better option, even if he was injured.

It does seem the Flames may have a pattern emerging here with how they handle injuries. Some comparisons have been made to how Monahan was confirmed to have been playing while injured.

There was also some speculation at the time as to how forthcoming Monahan was with regard to his injuries. I believe this ties into a larger issue concerning hockey culture and players downplaying their injuries to coaches/medical staff. Not sure how to solve that issue...

[chedder]

I think we just all hope it had been bugging him all season from a performance angle (not because we wanted the player to be hurt).

At least this way there's an excuse why he seemed to completely lose his scoring touch.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Personally, I thought Mangiapane was sensational in the second half of the season. Loved how he seemingly drove any line Sutter ended up throwing him out with. I know he didn't come anywhere close to 35 goals, but honestly, he's not a 35 goal guy. He just happened to ride an unsustainable hot month back in 2021 which resulted in that unmatchable total.

To me, he's a 40-50 point guy with a high motor and who plays the right way. That to me is classic Mangiapane and that's kind of where he ultimately ended up. 43 points, career high in assists, +12, bad first half, excellent second half. Still love this guy and hope he has a good recovery.

He’s about the middle of last year and this year. I would expect him at a 12-13%, maybe 15% if he shoots more quality shots. 25/25 player, maybe 30/20 on some years. Not bad for a 6th round pick 8 years ago. Solid two way player too. Just paid a little too much for my liking, but he was taking discounts prior to this deal so it makes up for it.

I hope for a speedy recovery. I want him playing with Huberdeau, I think he is the best stop gap until Coronato is ready to take the ribs with Huberdeau.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Torture

Gotta question why coaches keep players in when they're clearly injured and a fraction of themselves.

Is it really that big a drop off from shoulderless Mangiapane to a call-up?

Better to have him at 50% all year than at a 100% when he comes back?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Buff

It may be an organizational problem, but it's ALL organizations in the NHL. Don't assume it's just the Flames. It's all teams.

Look at the numbers, no team over the last decade has missed fewer man games, and it's not even close.

[Monahammer]

You don't even need to follow the numbers, though they are indicative that we have an organizational problem with this thought process, IMO.

Just following the team loosely over the last 2 decades should be enough to understand something is wrong with how we treat injured players. It's a running joke on these boards every year that we're about to hear about 3-4 necessary surgeries when garbage bag day comes up. Every single year we hear a story about how a player played through a questionable injury to tough it out, and every year we discuss how the player was likely impacted and playing worse because of the injury.

It's ridiculous. How you address the player culture element, IMO, is very simple. It's top down, and repeated frequently at every level of management and coach. You do not play hurt. You rest and heal and play 100% as soon as possible. Playing hurt gets you less ice time. There's no "warrior" points.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Torture

Gotta question why coaches keep players in when they're clearly injured and a fraction of themselves.

Is it really that big a drop off from shoulderless Mangiapane to a call-up?

So Mangiapane's shoulder injury is Sutter's fault too now? I'd say he was only 5-6 goals off of what should be expected of him on a year-to-year basis and this was with a nagging injury. Yes, scratching him for someone else all year would have resulted in a substantial drop off given the player does so much more for the team than score goals.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

You don't even need to follow the numbers, though they are indicative that we have an organizational problem with this thought process, IMO.

Just following the team loosely over the last 2 decades should be enough to understand something is wrong with how we treat injured players. It's a running joke on these boards every year that we're about to hear about 3-4 necessary surgeries when garbage bag day comes up. Every single year we hear a story about how a player played through a questionable injury to tough it out, and every year we discuss how the player was likely impacted and playing worse because of the injury.

It's ridiculous. How you address the player culture element, IMO, is very simple. It's top down, and repeated frequently at every level of management and coach. You do not play hurt. You rest and heal and play 100% as soon as possible. Playing hurt gets you less ice time. There's no "warrior" points.

This is hockey and staying healthy is just the luck of the draw. Players play hurt all the time in this league (or any league for that matter) and it isn't just a Flames issue where injuries and surgeries are announced at the end of the year.